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[Music]

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so

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[Music]

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welcome back to the ufo rabbit hole

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podcast i'm your host kelly chase

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i hope everyone is well hydrated and has

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done their stretches because this

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episode is where we start a whole new

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leg of our journey

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this my friends is where we start to

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truly go through the looking glass

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exploring the shadowy region of human

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experience that lives beyond the

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boundaries of our understanding

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it's the place where the deepest

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mysteries of science collide with the

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world of the hypothetical the mythical

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and for some even the divine

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and if i'm being honest i'm actually a

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little bit nervous

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because while we've flirted with the

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fantastical throughout these last few

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episodes

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we've done so while holding firmly to

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the guide rope of proven or at the very

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least respectable science but if we're

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going to go any further and truly begin

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to grapple with the mystery at the heart

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of the ufo phenomenon

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we have to be willing to venture outside

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of the boundaries of the established

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narrative

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in other words things are about to get

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pretty strange

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and to be honest there's something about

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doing this that feels like a risk

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after all there are things that we

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simply don't say allowed in polite

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society

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there are topics that we just don't

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touch for fear of what will rub off on

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us

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getting to this point in our

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conversation and speaking about these

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things publicly feels like crossing the

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rubicon there's no going back from here

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i've really struggled actually with this

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intro over the past few days because no

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matter how many times i restart it or

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come at it from a different angle it

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just keeps coming out sounding like an

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apology

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which i hate because i'm not sorry

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listen

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something is happening here

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something big and there are a million

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things that we don't know and maybe

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can't know about what it is or what it

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means but what is clear is that even the

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most mundane explanations for whatever

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this phenomenon might be would change

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everything about life as we know it

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when i started this line of questioning

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earlier this year the thing that was

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most startling to me was the realization

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of just how certain i was of things that

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weren't certain at all

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and how immediately dismissive i was of

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huge swaths of knowledge and evidence

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simply because it didn't fit into this

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respectable little box of ideas that an

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intelligent college-educated

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white-collar professional is allowed to

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entertain

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so i made the commitment to myself

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quietly because i was still worried

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about what people would think to go back

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to the drawing board and to learn

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everything that i could about this

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phenomenon

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i would keep an open mind and do my best

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not to judge the data or to let my own

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biases dictate my path

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but rather just to let it unfold and to

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follow it wherever it may lead

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i'm still on that journey and i still

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don't have the answers that i'm looking

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for

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but it has been a truly life-altering

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experience to recognize how much i've

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let other people's opinions shape

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not just what i believed but what i even

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allowed myself to entertain

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i've always considered myself to be a

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clear rational independent thinker

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and it's been humbling to recognize the

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extent to which that has not actually

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been the case

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and to be clear

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i am not asking for you to accept or

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believe any of what follows

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all i ask is that you try not to reject

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it outright

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to get the full picture of the ufo

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phenomenon we need to look at every

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piece of evidence and every theory even

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the ones that seem too outlandish or

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don't seem to fit

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so when we come across a piece of

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information that seems ridiculous or

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that makes you uncomfortable or that you

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just don't even know what to do with

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just put it on the shelf

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you can come back to it from time to

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time pick it up reconsider it in the

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light of new evidence weigh it against

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different ideas that you've picked up

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along the way

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and eventually you'll either find a use

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for it or you'll get rid of it

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or maybe you'll keep it on the shelf as

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a fun little oddity that you pull out at

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parties

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but wherever it ends up you'll be

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putting it there after thoughtful

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consideration

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you may very well still find a lot of

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what we talk about in this episode to be

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preposterous when all is said and done

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but in keeping an open mind on this

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journey you'll be giving yourself more

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complete access to the full scope of

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thinking around this phenomenon allowing

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yourself to form what you believe to be

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the best explanation on your own

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so with that in mind let's get moving we

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have a lot of ground to cover today as

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we consider some of the more exotic

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explanations for the ufo phenomenon

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and a fantastic place to start this

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conversation is with the work of jacques

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valle

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villa is an internet pioneer computer

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scientist venture capitalist author

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astronomer and one of the most venerated

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of ufology's founding fathers

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his work has in many ways defined modern

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ufology and it's almost impossible to

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get a true handle on the more unusual

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hypotheses for the origin of the ufo

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phenomenon without understanding his

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work

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valet's interest in the phenomenon began

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in 1955 when he saw a ufo over his home

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just outside of paris france

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six years later in 1961 while working as

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an astronomer for the french space

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committee he claimed to have witnessed

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the destruction of tapes of an unknown

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object orbiting the earth the peculiar

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object was in retrograde orbit something

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that is rare among man-made artificial

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satellites because of the difficulty of

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launching into orbit against the earth's

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rotation

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valet and his team assumed that what

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they had found was a natural satellite

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that had been captured by the earth's

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orbit

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but before they could investigate it

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further an unnamed supervisor came into

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the room and erased the tape

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this sparked a lifelong interest for

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valet in the phenomenon but despite his

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personal experiences and his lifelong

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dedication to searching for answers

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valet is so well respected because he

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has never been a fanatic and has always

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been a scientist first

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valet received his phd in industrial

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engineering and computer science from

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northwestern university in 1967.

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it was there that he met his mentor jay

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allen heineck who was chair of the

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astronomy department and the two began

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to conduct non-institutional research

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into the ufo phenomenon

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heineck is an interesting character

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himself and understanding his background

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can further illuminate valet and his

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work

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between 1947 and 1969 heineck served as

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the scientific advisor to the air force

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in their study of ufos under the code

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names project sign project grudge and

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project blue book

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although the name changed over the years

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the mission of this project remained the

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same to investigate and most importantly

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to debunk reported ufo sightings

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in this role hynek was the air force's

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lead debunker a job that the hard-nosed

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highly skeptical scientist relished

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he regarded the ufo phenomenon as

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utterly ridiculous and as a fad that

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would soon pass

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much of the language that is used to

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this day to discredit and stigmatize the

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phenomenon and those who report having

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experienced it is a direct result of

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hynek's intentional and systematic

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approach to the subject

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including being the first to attribute

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ufo sightings to swamp gas

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however after two decades of working

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with the air force heineck changed his

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tune and began to study the ufo

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phenomenon in earnest

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in 1973 he founded the center for ufo

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studies which was dedicated to

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advocating for the scientific research

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of the ufo phenomenon a cause that he

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championed both home and abroad until

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his death in 1986.

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heinek attributed this change to two

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things

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the first was what he called quote the

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completely negative and unyielding

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attitude unquote of the air force and

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their approach to studying the

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phenomenon

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in his words they wouldn't give ufos the

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chance of existing even if they were

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flying up and down the street in broad

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daylight

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and the other was the caliber of some of

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the witnesses that he interviewed

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including members of the military and

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police officers people that he

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considered to be trained observers

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he also had first-hand knowledge of just

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how such reports were received by

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higher-ups in those organizations and

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that those coming forward were risking

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not just ridicule but their careers

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i tell you all of this partly because as

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with any complex topic understanding the

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history of ufology is important to

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understanding the topic as a whole

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but also i think it's important to

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recognize ufology as a legitimate field

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of science that has been pursued with

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both great passion and with great

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scientific rigor by some of the best and

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brightest minds within some of our most

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respected academic institutions

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even if it has rarely been embraced by

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the institutions themselves

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and like valet

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heinek wasn't just another breathless

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believer chasing down any evidence that

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might confirm his pre-existing beliefs

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and biases he was a scientist a skeptic

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and someone who spent decades debunking

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and explaining away the phenomenon

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something that at the time he truly

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believed was in the best interest of the

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public at large

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and despite his change of opinion on the

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topic he brought the same level of

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scientific discipline to his research

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throughout his career

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so circling back to jacques vallet

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although he had originally begun his

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research into the phenomenon with the

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goal of validating the extraterrestrial

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hypothesis

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by 1969 right around the time when he

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started working with hynek

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valet began to express doubts about its

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viability stating that the

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extraterrestrial hypothesis was too

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narrow and ignored too much data

284
00:10:39,110 --> 00:10:37,200
by 1991 valet crystallized his arguments

285
00:10:41,430 --> 00:10:39,120
in his paper published in the journal of

286
00:10:42,949 --> 00:10:41,440
scientific exploration titled

287
00:10:45,350 --> 00:10:42,959
five arguments against the

288
00:10:46,710 --> 00:10:45,360
extraterrestrial origin of unidentified

289
00:10:48,949 --> 00:10:46,720
flying objects

290
00:10:51,509 --> 00:10:48,959
which are as follows

291
00:10:53,910 --> 00:10:51,519
the first argument is that unexplained

292
00:10:56,230 --> 00:10:53,920
close encounters are far too numerous to

293
00:10:58,310 --> 00:10:56,240
be simply visitation or study by

294
00:11:00,389 --> 00:10:58,320
extraterrestrial visitors

295
00:11:02,230 --> 00:11:00,399
valet was one of the first researchers

296
00:11:04,310 --> 00:11:02,240
to attempt to compile reports of

297
00:11:06,630 --> 00:11:04,320
unexplained aerial phenomena from around

298
00:11:09,590 --> 00:11:06,640
the world and was shocked to discover

299
00:11:13,910 --> 00:11:09,600
over 900 reports spanning the 100 years

300
00:11:16,069 --> 00:11:13,920
between 1869 and 1969 which he published

301
00:11:18,630 --> 00:11:16,079
in his groundbreaking book passport to

302
00:11:20,550 --> 00:11:18,640
magonia that same year

303
00:11:23,509 --> 00:11:20,560
but by the time he published his five

304
00:11:26,949 --> 00:11:23,519
arguments paper in 1991

305
00:11:29,430 --> 00:11:26,959
anywhere from 3 000 to 10 000 of these

306
00:11:31,430 --> 00:11:29,440
reports had been collected depending on

307
00:11:33,670 --> 00:11:31,440
which selection criteria one used to

308
00:11:35,030 --> 00:11:33,680
decide what constituted a legitimate

309
00:11:36,630 --> 00:11:35,040
report

310
00:11:38,470 --> 00:11:36,640
valet offered the relatively

311
00:11:41,670 --> 00:11:38,480
conservative number of five thousand

312
00:11:43,509 --> 00:11:41,680
reports and arguing that due to factors

313
00:11:45,590 --> 00:11:43,519
ranging from the stigmatization of the

314
00:11:47,430 --> 00:11:45,600
subject and a lack of clear methods of

315
00:11:50,230 --> 00:11:47,440
reporting such incidents

316
00:11:53,030 --> 00:11:50,240
likely as few as 1 in 10 people who have

317
00:11:55,030 --> 00:11:53,040
these experiences ever make a report

318
00:11:57,590 --> 00:11:55,040
so he reasoned that the real number of

319
00:11:58,870 --> 00:11:57,600
actual encounters could be as high as 50

320
00:12:00,230 --> 00:11:58,880
000.

321
00:12:02,470 --> 00:12:00,240
for valet

322
00:12:04,870 --> 00:12:02,480
this was just far too many to fit with

323
00:12:07,030 --> 00:12:04,880
the idea of extraterrestrial visitors

324
00:12:08,870 --> 00:12:07,040
and is a better fit for explanations

325
00:12:12,069 --> 00:12:08,880
that have a more local

326
00:12:14,230 --> 00:12:12,079
and potentially terrestrial origin

327
00:12:16,710 --> 00:12:14,240
his second argument is that the humanoid

328
00:12:18,710 --> 00:12:16,720
body structure of the alleged aliens is

329
00:12:20,470 --> 00:12:18,720
not likely to have originated on another

330
00:12:22,629 --> 00:12:20,480
planet which is an idea that we've

331
00:12:24,870 --> 00:12:22,639
talked about in previous episodes

332
00:12:28,310 --> 00:12:24,880
and based on what we knew of evolution

333
00:12:30,790 --> 00:12:28,320
in the 1990s this was a very valid point

334
00:12:33,190 --> 00:12:30,800
and even if we admit the more recent

335
00:12:35,670 --> 00:12:33,200
position of some evolutionary biologists

336
00:12:37,190 --> 00:12:35,680
that a humanoid shape may be much more

337
00:12:38,790 --> 00:12:37,200
common in the universe than we might

338
00:12:40,790 --> 00:12:38,800
have initially thought

339
00:12:42,629 --> 00:12:40,800
until we have concrete evidence that

340
00:12:44,629 --> 00:12:42,639
that is actually the case we're still

341
00:12:46,310 --> 00:12:44,639
dealing in speculation

342
00:12:48,310 --> 00:12:46,320
and even if our understanding of

343
00:12:50,710 --> 00:12:48,320
evolution evolves to the point that we

344
00:12:52,629 --> 00:12:50,720
can more fully understand how humanoid

345
00:12:54,069 --> 00:12:52,639
beings could evolve independently on

346
00:12:56,389 --> 00:12:54,079
different planets

347
00:12:57,910 --> 00:12:56,399
the actual discovery of such beings

348
00:12:59,269 --> 00:12:57,920
would be one of the most shocking

349
00:13:01,030 --> 00:12:59,279
revelations in the history of our

350
00:13:02,949 --> 00:13:01,040
species

351
00:13:04,870 --> 00:13:02,959
the third argument is that the reported

352
00:13:07,430 --> 00:13:04,880
behavior in thousands of abduction

353
00:13:09,829 --> 00:13:07,440
reports contradicts the hypothesis of

354
00:13:12,150 --> 00:13:09,839
genetic or scientific experimentation on

355
00:13:13,829 --> 00:13:12,160
humans by an advanced race

356
00:13:16,470 --> 00:13:13,839
in combing through thousands of accounts

357
00:13:18,310 --> 00:13:16,480
of alien abduction valet recognized the

358
00:13:19,910 --> 00:13:18,320
common patterns that emerged in the form

359
00:13:22,310 --> 00:13:19,920
of the tropes that we all generally

360
00:13:24,629 --> 00:13:22,320
associate with the abduction phenomenon

361
00:13:27,750 --> 00:13:24,639
witnesses report being transported in a

362
00:13:29,350 --> 00:13:27,760
hollow spherical or hemispherical space

363
00:13:30,629 --> 00:13:29,360
and being subjected to a medical

364
00:13:33,269 --> 00:13:30,639
examination

365
00:13:35,350 --> 00:13:33,279
this is often but not always followed by

366
00:13:37,990 --> 00:13:35,360
the taking of blood samples various

367
00:13:39,189 --> 00:13:38,000
kinds of sexual interaction and loss of

368
00:13:41,350 --> 00:13:39,199
time

369
00:13:43,189 --> 00:13:41,360
the entire episode is frequently wiped

370
00:13:45,670 --> 00:13:43,199
out of conscious memory and is only

371
00:13:47,670 --> 00:13:45,680
retrievable under hypnosis

372
00:13:49,509 --> 00:13:47,680
and while on the surface this certainly

373
00:13:51,590 --> 00:13:49,519
sounds like it could be aligned with the

374
00:13:54,310 --> 00:13:51,600
idea that humans are being studied by a

375
00:13:56,470 --> 00:13:54,320
more advanced race from another planet

376
00:13:58,389 --> 00:13:56,480
valet argues that this actually doesn't

377
00:14:00,550 --> 00:13:58,399
make any sense at all

378
00:14:02,150 --> 00:14:00,560
his reasoning is that any being

379
00:14:03,910 --> 00:14:02,160
sufficiently advanced to create the

380
00:14:05,910 --> 00:14:03,920
technologically advanced craft being

381
00:14:08,230 --> 00:14:05,920
reported in our skies and to use those

382
00:14:10,710 --> 00:14:08,240
craft to travel to another planet would

383
00:14:13,030 --> 00:14:10,720
be at least as advanced as we are in the

384
00:14:15,189 --> 00:14:13,040
fields of medicine and biology

385
00:14:16,949 --> 00:14:15,199
and our own scientists wouldn't need to

386
00:14:18,949 --> 00:14:16,959
abduct and physically take genetic

387
00:14:21,030 --> 00:14:18,959
material from tens of thousands of

388
00:14:24,389 --> 00:14:21,040
different beings in order to study and

389
00:14:26,230 --> 00:14:24,399
understand them so why would they

390
00:14:28,790 --> 00:14:26,240
and if for some reason we don't

391
00:14:30,870 --> 00:14:28,800
understand they did need massive amounts

392
00:14:33,110 --> 00:14:30,880
of human genetic material

393
00:14:34,870 --> 00:14:33,120
there are sperm and egg banks all over

394
00:14:36,790 --> 00:14:34,880
the world it shouldn't be a huge

395
00:14:38,949 --> 00:14:36,800
challenge for a super advanced race of

396
00:14:41,189 --> 00:14:38,959
beings to get access to those allowing

397
00:14:42,710 --> 00:14:41,199
them to harvest genetic material in bulk

398
00:14:44,790 --> 00:14:42,720
and without all the must and fuss of

399
00:14:47,030 --> 00:14:44,800
abducting thousands of individuals over

400
00:14:48,870 --> 00:14:47,040
several decades

401
00:14:50,710 --> 00:14:48,880
the fourth argument is that the

402
00:14:53,030 --> 00:14:50,720
extension of the phenomenon throughout

403
00:14:56,629 --> 00:14:53,040
recorded human history demonstrates that

404
00:14:58,790 --> 00:14:56,639
ufos are not a contemporary phenomenon

405
00:15:00,790 --> 00:14:58,800
as we discussed in a previous episode

406
00:15:02,949 --> 00:15:00,800
although the ufo phenomenon has been

407
00:15:04,870 --> 00:15:02,959
popularly regarded to have begun near

408
00:15:06,790 --> 00:15:04,880
the end of world war ii

409
00:15:09,030 --> 00:15:06,800
people have reported strange lights

410
00:15:10,470 --> 00:15:09,040
objects and beings in the sky throughout

411
00:15:12,310 --> 00:15:10,480
human history

412
00:15:13,910 --> 00:15:12,320
although the details of the experiences

413
00:15:15,030 --> 00:15:13,920
may shift and evolve throughout the

414
00:15:17,030 --> 00:15:15,040
centuries

415
00:15:19,430 --> 00:15:17,040
any attempt to draw a line in the sand

416
00:15:21,990 --> 00:15:19,440
and say that any particular encounter or

417
00:15:24,069 --> 00:15:22,000
time period marks the definitive

418
00:15:27,189 --> 00:15:24,079
beginning of this phenomenon would be

419
00:15:29,430 --> 00:15:27,199
entirely arbitrary after all as valet

420
00:15:31,350 --> 00:15:29,440
points out it's hard to find a culture

421
00:15:33,430 --> 00:15:31,360
that doesn't have stories of beings that

422
00:15:35,590 --> 00:15:33,440
come from the sky in strange vessels and

423
00:15:37,509 --> 00:15:35,600
occasionally abduct humans

424
00:15:39,670 --> 00:15:37,519
however it's not just in the

425
00:15:42,150 --> 00:15:39,680
similarities of these stories but in the

426
00:15:43,990 --> 00:15:42,160
differences between them the valesi's

427
00:15:45,910 --> 00:15:44,000
evidence that the phenomenon is more

428
00:15:48,069 --> 00:15:45,920
complex than the extraterrestrial

429
00:15:49,430 --> 00:15:48,079
hypothesis would suggest

430
00:15:51,590 --> 00:15:49,440
he writes

431
00:15:53,910 --> 00:15:51,600
in previous works i've pointed out that

432
00:15:56,389 --> 00:15:53,920
aerial phenomena very similar to our

433
00:15:58,230 --> 00:15:56,399
ufos have been reported in the 9th

434
00:15:59,110 --> 00:15:58,240
century in the form of vessels in the

435
00:16:01,910 --> 00:15:59,120
sky

436
00:16:04,790 --> 00:16:01,920
as airships in the days of jules verne

437
00:16:07,590 --> 00:16:04,800
as ghost rockets in 1946 and as

438
00:16:10,629 --> 00:16:07,600
spacecraft in more recent times as if

439
00:16:12,470 --> 00:16:10,639
they've mimicked human expectations

440
00:16:14,710 --> 00:16:12,480
everything works as if the ufo

441
00:16:17,110 --> 00:16:14,720
phenomenon remained consistently one

442
00:16:19,189 --> 00:16:17,120
step ahead of human technology

443
00:16:21,269 --> 00:16:19,199
in the last 10 years as molecular

444
00:16:23,269 --> 00:16:21,279
biology has become more glamorous than

445
00:16:25,350 --> 00:16:23,279
electronics or even aerospace in our

446
00:16:27,829 --> 00:16:25,360
modern civilization it shouldn't be

447
00:16:29,350 --> 00:16:27,839
surprising to find the aliens performing

448
00:16:31,749 --> 00:16:29,360
something that looks like genetic

449
00:16:34,150 --> 00:16:31,759
engineering interventions

450
00:16:35,990 --> 00:16:34,160
for valet the way that the phenomenon

451
00:16:38,470 --> 00:16:36,000
manifests along the lines of human

452
00:16:40,790 --> 00:16:38,480
expectation suggests that there is at

453
00:16:42,949 --> 00:16:40,800
least some component of the phenomenon

454
00:16:45,509 --> 00:16:42,959
that is a function of a projection of

455
00:16:47,710 --> 00:16:45,519
the consciousness of the observer

456
00:16:50,069 --> 00:16:47,720
this is often referred to as the

457
00:16:51,590 --> 00:16:50,079
psychosociological hypothesis and we'll

458
00:16:53,829 --> 00:16:51,600
get to it later

459
00:16:55,829 --> 00:16:53,839
and finally the fifth argument is that

460
00:16:58,310 --> 00:16:55,839
the apparent ability of ufos to

461
00:16:59,990 --> 00:16:58,320
manipulate space and time suggests

462
00:17:01,910 --> 00:17:00,000
radically different and richer

463
00:17:04,949 --> 00:17:01,920
alternatives than the extraterrestrial

464
00:17:06,549 --> 00:17:04,959
hypothesis can offer valet points out

465
00:17:08,710 --> 00:17:06,559
that the behavior described across

466
00:17:10,630 --> 00:17:08,720
thousands of reported encounters

467
00:17:12,549 --> 00:17:10,640
indicates a level of technology that

468
00:17:14,230 --> 00:17:12,559
goes far beyond just the advanced

469
00:17:16,470 --> 00:17:14,240
propulsion systems one would need to

470
00:17:18,069 --> 00:17:16,480
develop for interstellar travel

471
00:17:19,909 --> 00:17:18,079
these craft have been reported to

472
00:17:22,470 --> 00:17:19,919
exhibit the ability to appear and

473
00:17:24,870 --> 00:17:22,480
disappear very suddenly to change their

474
00:17:27,110 --> 00:17:24,880
apparent shapes in continuous fashion

475
00:17:28,230 --> 00:17:27,120
and even to merge with other physical

476
00:17:30,150 --> 00:17:28,240
objects

477
00:17:32,710 --> 00:17:30,160
all of these suggest an ability to

478
00:17:33,669 --> 00:17:32,720
manipulate the very fabric of space and

479
00:17:35,350 --> 00:17:33,679
time

480
00:17:37,909 --> 00:17:35,360
and if there are beings who have that

481
00:17:40,390 --> 00:17:37,919
kind of capability he reasons that the

482
00:17:42,630 --> 00:17:40,400
answer to where and even when they come

483
00:17:45,029 --> 00:17:42,640
from is likely much more complicated

484
00:17:47,350 --> 00:17:45,039
than we can currently comprehend

485
00:17:49,190 --> 00:17:47,360
in the conclusion of his five arguments

486
00:17:51,270 --> 00:17:49,200
valet offers a few alternative

487
00:17:53,830 --> 00:17:51,280
hypotheses that he believes better

488
00:17:54,950 --> 00:17:53,840
explain the ufo phenomenon based on the

489
00:17:57,510 --> 00:17:54,960
evidence

490
00:17:59,350 --> 00:17:57,520
each is nuanced and complex and as we

491
00:18:00,630 --> 00:17:59,360
separate them out into their key parts

492
00:18:02,789 --> 00:18:00,640
and components

493
00:18:04,710 --> 00:18:02,799
we can start to see valet's startling

494
00:18:07,190 --> 00:18:04,720
vision begin to take shape

495
00:18:10,789 --> 00:18:07,200
and with it a new world of possibilities

496
00:18:12,470 --> 00:18:10,799
in our exploration of the ufo phenomenon

497
00:18:14,310 --> 00:18:12,480
the first of these ideas is that the

498
00:18:16,549 --> 00:18:14,320
phenomenon could potentially be

499
00:18:18,230 --> 00:18:16,559
interdimensional in nature which is

500
00:18:19,669 --> 00:18:18,240
referred to as the interdimensional

501
00:18:21,510 --> 00:18:19,679
hypothesis

502
00:18:23,430 --> 00:18:21,520
increasingly branches of science and

503
00:18:25,590 --> 00:18:23,440
physics are beginning to delve into the

504
00:18:27,590 --> 00:18:25,600
possibility of the existence of other

505
00:18:29,830 --> 00:18:27,600
universes and dimensions

506
00:18:31,669 --> 00:18:29,840
and although we have no direct evidence

507
00:18:33,830 --> 00:18:31,679
that they actually exist

508
00:18:35,990 --> 00:18:33,840
many of our scientific models depend on

509
00:18:37,590 --> 00:18:36,000
the idea that they do

510
00:18:39,029 --> 00:18:37,600
this creates a whole new world of

511
00:18:42,150 --> 00:18:39,039
possibilities when it comes to the

512
00:18:43,669 --> 00:18:42,160
origins of the ufo phenomenon however as

513
00:18:45,830 --> 00:18:43,679
we'll see once we dive into the

514
00:18:48,710 --> 00:18:45,840
individual theories this highly

515
00:18:50,870 --> 00:18:48,720
speculative idea often introduces more

516
00:18:53,190 --> 00:18:50,880
questions than it answers

517
00:18:55,750 --> 00:18:53,200
the second of these ideas often referred

518
00:18:57,669 --> 00:18:55,760
to as the ultra-terrestrial hypothesis

519
00:18:59,190 --> 00:18:57,679
is that although the phenomenon into

520
00:19:01,350 --> 00:18:59,200
alien to us

521
00:19:03,430 --> 00:19:01,360
the evidence points to the possibility

522
00:19:04,310 --> 00:19:03,440
that it has its origin right here on

523
00:19:07,110 --> 00:19:04,320
earth

524
00:19:08,630 --> 00:19:07,120
this could manifest in a couple of ways

525
00:19:11,830 --> 00:19:08,640
the first would be that the ufo

526
00:19:14,950 --> 00:19:11,840
phenomenon is some kind of supernature

527
00:19:17,190 --> 00:19:14,960
something akin to the gaia hypothesis

528
00:19:19,190 --> 00:19:17,200
the gaia hypothesis named after the

529
00:19:21,190 --> 00:19:19,200
ancient greek goddess of earth

530
00:19:24,630 --> 00:19:21,200
posits that earth and its biological

531
00:19:27,150 --> 00:19:24,640
systems behave as a huge single entity

532
00:19:29,190 --> 00:19:27,160
this entity has closely controlled

533
00:19:30,950 --> 00:19:29,200
self-regulatory systems that keep the

534
00:19:33,830 --> 00:19:30,960
conditions on the planet within

535
00:19:35,750 --> 00:19:33,840
boundaries that are favorable to life

536
00:19:38,070 --> 00:19:35,760
introduced by chemists and inventor

537
00:19:40,710 --> 00:19:38,080
james e lovlock and biologist lynne

538
00:19:42,470 --> 00:19:40,720
margulis in the early 1970s

539
00:19:44,549 --> 00:19:42,480
this new way of looking at global

540
00:19:46,549 --> 00:19:44,559
ecology and evolution differs from the

541
00:19:49,029 --> 00:19:46,559
classical picture of ecology as a

542
00:19:50,470 --> 00:19:49,039
biological response to a set of physical

543
00:19:53,430 --> 00:19:50,480
conditions

544
00:19:55,270 --> 00:19:53,440
the idea of co-evolution of biology and

545
00:19:57,750 --> 00:19:55,280
the physical environment where each

546
00:20:00,390 --> 00:19:57,760
influences the other was suggested as

547
00:20:02,870 --> 00:20:00,400
early as the mid-1700s but never as

548
00:20:04,870 --> 00:20:02,880
strongly as with the gaia hypothesis

549
00:20:08,070 --> 00:20:04,880
which claims the power of biology to

550
00:20:09,590 --> 00:20:08,080
control the non-living environment

551
00:20:11,510 --> 00:20:09,600
another interpretation of the

552
00:20:13,590 --> 00:20:11,520
ultra-terrestrial hypothesis that has

553
00:20:15,110 --> 00:20:13,600
gained popularity in recent years for

554
00:20:16,390 --> 00:20:15,120
reasons that we'll discuss later on in

555
00:20:19,110 --> 00:20:16,400
this episode

556
00:20:22,149 --> 00:20:19,120
is that the ufo phenomenon is evidence

557
00:20:24,149 --> 00:20:22,159
of one or more races of ancient advanced

558
00:20:25,830 --> 00:20:24,159
intelligent beings that have shared the

559
00:20:27,909 --> 00:20:25,840
planet with us since the beginning of

560
00:20:29,830 --> 00:20:27,919
human history and likely predates our

561
00:20:32,630 --> 00:20:29,840
emergence on the planet

562
00:20:35,110 --> 00:20:32,640
and yes i know how that sounds

563
00:20:36,310 --> 00:20:35,120
of all of the ideas presented so far for

564
00:20:38,070 --> 00:20:36,320
many people

565
00:20:40,230 --> 00:20:38,080
this is the one that's hardest to not

566
00:20:41,669 --> 00:20:40,240
reject outright as being frankly

567
00:20:43,830 --> 00:20:41,679
preposterous

568
00:20:45,750 --> 00:20:43,840
and i get it and i'm certainly not

569
00:20:47,190 --> 00:20:45,760
asking you to accept that idea as any

570
00:20:49,029 --> 00:20:47,200
kind of truth

571
00:20:50,549 --> 00:20:49,039
all i ask is that you put it on the

572
00:20:53,590 --> 00:20:50,559
shelf for now

573
00:20:56,070 --> 00:20:53,600
also the ultra-terrestrial hypothesis is

574
00:20:58,950 --> 00:20:56,080
just a lot of fun so my strong

575
00:21:00,870 --> 00:20:58,960
recommendation is that you just enjoy it

576
00:21:02,870 --> 00:21:00,880
there's another aspect of lay's work

577
00:21:05,270 --> 00:21:02,880
that in some ways i hesitate to

578
00:21:07,110 --> 00:21:05,280
introduce this early on but it is

579
00:21:09,510 --> 00:21:07,120
integral enough to his research into

580
00:21:11,350 --> 00:21:09,520
ufology as a whole that i'd be remiss

581
00:21:14,390 --> 00:21:11,360
and not telling you about it

582
00:21:16,789 --> 00:21:14,400
and that aspect is that for valet

583
00:21:18,710 --> 00:21:16,799
what these hypotheses have in common is

584
00:21:22,149 --> 00:21:18,720
that they appear to function as some

585
00:21:24,470 --> 00:21:22,159
kind of a control mechanism on humanity

586
00:21:27,430 --> 00:21:24,480
my hesitation in mentioning that is that

587
00:21:29,750 --> 00:21:27,440
this concept is far too often the

588
00:21:32,149 --> 00:21:29,760
gateway drug that spirals a person into

589
00:21:34,310 --> 00:21:32,159
fanatic belief in a pernicious and

590
00:21:36,310 --> 00:21:34,320
frankly dangerous idea that finds itself

591
00:21:37,750 --> 00:21:36,320
at the center of almost any conspiracy

592
00:21:40,070 --> 00:21:37,760
theory these days

593
00:21:41,750 --> 00:21:40,080
which is some version of the idea that

594
00:21:43,990 --> 00:21:41,760
the world is being controlled by some

595
00:21:46,310 --> 00:21:44,000
elite cabal of satanic probably

596
00:21:48,310 --> 00:21:46,320
reptilian baby eaters

597
00:21:51,270 --> 00:21:48,320
and while i'm not at all against the

598
00:21:53,510 --> 00:21:51,280
eventual exploration and re-examination

599
00:21:55,110 --> 00:21:53,520
of our understanding of human history

600
00:21:57,350 --> 00:21:55,120
and the power structures that control

601
00:21:58,950 --> 00:21:57,360
our government our military our economy

602
00:22:00,310 --> 00:21:58,960
and our understanding of our place in

603
00:22:02,149 --> 00:22:00,320
the universe

604
00:22:05,110 --> 00:22:02,159
that is not a slippery slope that we'll

605
00:22:07,270 --> 00:22:05,120
be sliding down on this podcast

606
00:22:10,310 --> 00:22:07,280
but the idea of the phenomenon as a

607
00:22:11,909 --> 00:22:10,320
control mechanism is an important one

608
00:22:13,990 --> 00:22:11,919
it pops up again and again with

609
00:22:16,710 --> 00:22:14,000
different faces and different names but

610
00:22:18,710 --> 00:22:16,720
the core of the idea is always the same

611
00:22:21,909 --> 00:22:18,720
that humanity is being controlled in

612
00:22:23,990 --> 00:22:21,919
some way by an advanced intelligence

613
00:22:27,110 --> 00:22:24,000
i think the reason that this idea is so

614
00:22:29,590 --> 00:22:27,120
pervasive in ufology comes down to the

615
00:22:32,070 --> 00:22:29,600
unpredictable and baffling nature of the

616
00:22:34,710 --> 00:22:32,080
phenomenon the way that it continually

617
00:22:37,510 --> 00:22:34,720
shifts and evolves always eluding us

618
00:22:38,789 --> 00:22:37,520
always defying our expectations dancing

619
00:22:41,830 --> 00:22:38,799
just around the edges of our

620
00:22:43,669 --> 00:22:41,840
understanding as valet outlined in his

621
00:22:46,149 --> 00:22:43,679
five arguments when you take the

622
00:22:47,990 --> 00:22:46,159
evidence for the phenomenon as a whole

623
00:22:49,830 --> 00:22:48,000
it is nearly impossible to piece

624
00:22:52,310 --> 00:22:49,840
together any kind of a coherent

625
00:22:53,510 --> 00:22:52,320
narrative to explain what these beings

626
00:22:55,430 --> 00:22:53,520
might be doing

627
00:22:57,830 --> 00:22:55,440
much less the reason why

628
00:22:59,430 --> 00:22:57,840
and so it can lead one to wonder if the

629
00:23:01,830 --> 00:22:59,440
purpose behind these perplexing

630
00:23:04,070 --> 00:23:01,840
encounters is to elicit some kind of a

631
00:23:05,190 --> 00:23:04,080
response or to none just in a particular

632
00:23:07,110 --> 00:23:05,200
direction

633
00:23:09,510 --> 00:23:07,120
and while there is an understandable

634
00:23:11,830 --> 00:23:09,520
tendency to interpret this idea in a way

635
00:23:13,669 --> 00:23:11,840
that is fundamentally sinister

636
00:23:15,590 --> 00:23:13,679
it could be that this control mechanism

637
00:23:17,110 --> 00:23:15,600
is actually for our benefit

638
00:23:19,029 --> 00:23:17,120
it might not even be something that is

639
00:23:20,470 --> 00:23:19,039
controlling us from the outside but

640
00:23:22,390 --> 00:23:20,480
rather a projection of our own

641
00:23:25,190 --> 00:23:22,400
consciousness that we don't totally

642
00:23:27,270 --> 00:23:25,200
understand we simply don't know

643
00:23:28,950 --> 00:23:27,280
so let's just put this idea on the shelf

644
00:23:30,870 --> 00:23:28,960
for now we'll definitely be coming back

645
00:23:32,310 --> 00:23:30,880
for it later

646
00:23:34,149 --> 00:23:32,320
and so this is where we'll spend some

647
00:23:36,070 --> 00:23:34,159
time today by exploring the

648
00:23:38,149 --> 00:23:36,080
interdimensional hypothesis and the

649
00:23:39,350 --> 00:23:38,159
ultra-terrestrial hypothesis and what

650
00:23:41,269 --> 00:23:39,360
they could mean

651
00:23:43,190 --> 00:23:41,279
and as we move along you'll likely

652
00:23:45,269 --> 00:23:43,200
notice that although these ideas are

653
00:23:47,190 --> 00:23:45,279
distinct and different they begin to

654
00:23:47,990 --> 00:23:47,200
overlap and intersect in interesting

655
00:23:49,430 --> 00:23:48,000
ways

656
00:23:51,510 --> 00:23:49,440
which makes sense

657
00:23:53,990 --> 00:23:51,520
despite their differences both of these

658
00:23:56,470 --> 00:23:54,000
hypotheses rely on the premise that our

659
00:23:58,630 --> 00:23:56,480
world isn't quite what we think it is

660
00:24:01,029 --> 00:23:58,640
and that we are likely sharing space at

661
00:24:03,830 --> 00:24:01,039
least occasionally with one or more

662
00:24:06,410 --> 00:24:03,840
intelligent species and likely have been

663
00:25:30,230 --> 00:24:06,420
since the beginning of human history

664
00:25:31,990 --> 00:25:30,240
[Music]

665
00:25:34,070 --> 00:25:32,000
let's start with the nuts and bolts of

666
00:25:35,750 --> 00:25:34,080
the interdimensional hypothesis

667
00:25:37,590 --> 00:25:35,760
if ufos are visitors from other

668
00:25:39,590 --> 00:25:37,600
dimensions we need to start with the

669
00:25:42,230 --> 00:25:39,600
most obvious questions

670
00:25:43,990 --> 00:25:42,240
do other dimensions exist and if they do

671
00:25:44,950 --> 00:25:44,000
would it be possible to travel between

672
00:25:46,789 --> 00:25:44,960
them

673
00:25:48,230 --> 00:25:46,799
to answer this question we need to

674
00:25:49,909 --> 00:25:48,240
circle back to something that we talked

675
00:25:51,909 --> 00:25:49,919
about in episode 2.

676
00:25:53,029 --> 00:25:51,919
quantum mechanics and the double slit

677
00:25:55,029 --> 00:25:53,039
experiment

678
00:25:57,190 --> 00:25:55,039
as a quick refresher the double slit

679
00:25:59,669 --> 00:25:57,200
experiment is one of the most famous and

680
00:26:01,430 --> 00:25:59,679
most replicated experiments in history

681
00:26:03,669 --> 00:26:01,440
which is unsurprising considering the

682
00:26:05,750 --> 00:26:03,679
profound and puzzling implications that

683
00:26:07,110 --> 00:26:05,760
it has for the very nature of our

684
00:26:09,430 --> 00:26:07,120
reality

685
00:26:11,430 --> 00:26:09,440
as you'll recall light can exist either

686
00:26:13,510 --> 00:26:11,440
as a wave function or as a single

687
00:26:15,350 --> 00:26:13,520
particle called a photon

688
00:26:17,510 --> 00:26:15,360
if you were to shine a light on a board

689
00:26:18,870 --> 00:26:17,520
that had two slits cut into it

690
00:26:20,710 --> 00:26:18,880
you would see that the light would form

691
00:26:23,350 --> 00:26:20,720
a pattern of lines on the wall behind

692
00:26:25,350 --> 00:26:23,360
the board called an interference pattern

693
00:26:27,350 --> 00:26:25,360
an interference pattern occurs when

694
00:26:29,590 --> 00:26:27,360
waves overlap with each other in such a

695
00:26:31,190 --> 00:26:29,600
way that the trough of one wave runs

696
00:26:33,430 --> 00:26:31,200
into the crest of another wave

697
00:26:35,269 --> 00:26:33,440
effectively canceling each other out

698
00:26:37,510 --> 00:26:35,279
you can visualize it by thinking about

699
00:26:39,590 --> 00:26:37,520
dropping two stones into a still body of

700
00:26:41,669 --> 00:26:39,600
water a few feet apart

701
00:26:43,750 --> 00:26:41,679
each stone will form a wave that you see

702
00:26:46,070 --> 00:26:43,760
moving out from the stone in concentric

703
00:26:48,310 --> 00:26:46,080
circles and when these ripples from the

704
00:26:50,549 --> 00:26:48,320
stones intersect with each other you get

705
00:26:52,870 --> 00:26:50,559
an interference pattern in the water

706
00:26:54,789 --> 00:26:52,880
waves of light work the same way

707
00:26:57,029 --> 00:26:54,799
but let's say that instead of shining a

708
00:26:58,950 --> 00:26:57,039
light at the board you instead fired one

709
00:27:00,950 --> 00:26:58,960
photon at a time at it and there was a

710
00:27:03,510 --> 00:27:00,960
sensor behind the board that would show

711
00:27:05,830 --> 00:27:03,520
you where that photon hit so you shoot a

712
00:27:07,669 --> 00:27:05,840
bunch of photons at the board one by one

713
00:27:10,070 --> 00:27:07,679
allowing enough time for the last photon

714
00:27:11,750 --> 00:27:10,080
to hit before you shoot the next one

715
00:27:13,669 --> 00:27:11,760
what you'd find when you were finished

716
00:27:15,590 --> 00:27:13,679
would be that despite the fact that the

717
00:27:17,350 --> 00:27:15,600
light was going through the board one

718
00:27:19,510 --> 00:27:17,360
photon at a time

719
00:27:20,950 --> 00:27:19,520
there's still an interference pattern on

720
00:27:22,870 --> 00:27:20,960
the wall

721
00:27:24,549 --> 00:27:22,880
but how can there be if there were no

722
00:27:26,149 --> 00:27:24,559
light waves to interfere with each other

723
00:27:28,789 --> 00:27:26,159
in the first place

724
00:27:30,870 --> 00:27:28,799
how can a single photon seemingly behave

725
00:27:32,710 --> 00:27:30,880
like a wave going through both slits at

726
00:27:35,590 --> 00:27:32,720
once and then interfering with itself on

727
00:27:37,350 --> 00:27:35,600
the other side it doesn't make sense

728
00:27:39,269 --> 00:27:37,360
based on everything we know about

729
00:27:42,149 --> 00:27:39,279
physics and about our lived reality in

730
00:27:44,950 --> 00:27:42,159
general this should be impossible and

731
00:27:47,590 --> 00:27:44,960
yet like i said this is one of the most

732
00:27:49,830 --> 00:27:47,600
replicated experiments in history and

733
00:27:51,909 --> 00:27:49,840
the results are always the same

734
00:27:53,750 --> 00:27:51,919
and if that wasn't weird enough it's

735
00:27:55,269 --> 00:27:53,760
this next part of the experiment that

736
00:27:57,350 --> 00:27:55,279
breaks everything that we know about

737
00:28:00,230 --> 00:27:57,360
physics in the universe and well

738
00:28:02,789 --> 00:28:00,240
everything really because what you find

739
00:28:05,430 --> 00:28:02,799
is that if you set up a sensor to detect

740
00:28:08,149 --> 00:28:05,440
which of the two slits a photon passes

741
00:28:10,710 --> 00:28:08,159
through and repeat the experiment firing

742
00:28:12,950 --> 00:28:10,720
photons at the board one at a time

743
00:28:16,310 --> 00:28:12,960
something crazy happens

744
00:28:18,950 --> 00:28:16,320
the interference pattern just goes away

745
00:28:21,350 --> 00:28:18,960
the mere act of observing which of the

746
00:28:23,830 --> 00:28:21,360
two slits the photon goes through

747
00:28:26,389 --> 00:28:23,840
somehow forces it to make a decision and

748
00:28:28,470 --> 00:28:26,399
only go through one slit or the other

749
00:28:31,350 --> 00:28:28,480
and as a result the pattern that you get

750
00:28:34,230 --> 00:28:31,360
on the wall is just two straight lines

751
00:28:36,389 --> 00:28:34,240
but how can a single photon know if

752
00:28:39,350 --> 00:28:36,399
that's even the right word to use

753
00:28:41,590 --> 00:28:39,360
whether or not its path is being tracked

754
00:28:43,669 --> 00:28:41,600
how does it know if we know whether it

755
00:28:45,750 --> 00:28:43,679
goes through one slit or the other

756
00:28:47,909 --> 00:28:45,760
and what is it about our observation

757
00:28:50,870 --> 00:28:47,919
that changes its behavior

758
00:28:52,710 --> 00:28:50,880
what the heck is going on here

759
00:28:54,630 --> 00:28:52,720
well i hope you weren't hoping for me to

760
00:28:56,149 --> 00:28:54,640
give you an answer to that question

761
00:28:57,590 --> 00:28:56,159
because although our brightest minds

762
00:28:59,510 --> 00:28:57,600
have been hurling themselves at the

763
00:29:00,310 --> 00:28:59,520
brick wall of this problem for a century

764
00:29:02,710 --> 00:29:00,320
now

765
00:29:04,710 --> 00:29:02,720
we really haven't made any progress

766
00:29:07,350 --> 00:29:04,720
we can use quantum physics to predict

767
00:29:09,669 --> 00:29:07,360
what will happen with stunning accuracy

768
00:29:11,750 --> 00:29:09,679
but the how and the why is still a

769
00:29:14,230 --> 00:29:11,760
complete mystery to us

770
00:29:16,549 --> 00:29:14,240
in the words of caltech physicist sean

771
00:29:18,870 --> 00:29:16,559
carroll quantum physicists are like

772
00:29:20,470 --> 00:29:18,880
people with iphones they know how to use

773
00:29:22,389 --> 00:29:20,480
it and they can do some pretty great

774
00:29:24,710 --> 00:29:22,399
things with it but if you ask them

775
00:29:26,470 --> 00:29:24,720
what's going on inside their iphones

776
00:29:28,710 --> 00:29:26,480
they have no idea

777
00:29:30,710 --> 00:29:28,720
of course there are theories but no one

778
00:29:33,029 --> 00:29:30,720
theory can claim consensus agreement

779
00:29:35,430 --> 00:29:33,039
among present day physicists and this

780
00:29:37,190 --> 00:29:35,440
debate continues to rage on

781
00:29:39,190 --> 00:29:37,200
however one of the most popular

782
00:29:40,470 --> 00:29:39,200
interpretations and the one that is most

783
00:29:42,710 --> 00:29:40,480
commonly taught in high school and

784
00:29:44,070 --> 00:29:42,720
college classes is the copenhagen

785
00:29:48,230 --> 00:29:44,080
interpretation

786
00:29:50,789 --> 00:29:48,240
developed in the 1920s and is the shared

787
00:29:52,710 --> 00:29:50,799
brain baby of famed physicist niels bohr

788
00:29:54,950 --> 00:29:52,720
and werner heisenberg

789
00:29:57,110 --> 00:29:54,960
so how did bohr and heisenberg explain

790
00:29:58,870 --> 00:29:57,120
the double slit experiment so let's go

791
00:30:00,950 --> 00:29:58,880
back to the first part of the experiment

792
00:30:03,190 --> 00:30:00,960
where a photon is shot at the board one

793
00:30:05,190 --> 00:30:03,200
at a time and yet still somehow creates

794
00:30:06,789 --> 00:30:05,200
an interference pattern on the wall how

795
00:30:09,269 --> 00:30:06,799
is it that a photon can behave like a

796
00:30:11,830 --> 00:30:09,279
wave well according to the copenhagen

797
00:30:14,070 --> 00:30:11,840
interpretation this is because before

798
00:30:16,549 --> 00:30:14,080
the photon is measured it doesn't

799
00:30:18,630 --> 00:30:16,559
actually exist in a definite place or

800
00:30:21,110 --> 00:30:18,640
have a particular motion

801
00:30:23,269 --> 00:30:21,120
it exists everywhere and nowhere at the

802
00:30:25,110 --> 00:30:23,279
same time and the waves that are

803
00:30:27,510 --> 00:30:25,120
interacting with each other to form the

804
00:30:29,750 --> 00:30:27,520
interference pattern that we see

805
00:30:32,470 --> 00:30:29,760
aren't even actually waves of light but

806
00:30:35,350 --> 00:30:32,480
rather they are waves of probability

807
00:30:37,669 --> 00:30:35,360
the photon both does and doesn't go down

808
00:30:40,230 --> 00:30:37,679
every possible path and only

809
00:30:42,310 --> 00:30:40,240
materializes in a particular spot when

810
00:30:44,870 --> 00:30:42,320
it's forced to do so by the sensor on

811
00:30:46,549 --> 00:30:44,880
the wall that detects where it hits

812
00:30:48,389 --> 00:30:46,559
and so in the second half of the

813
00:30:50,230 --> 00:30:48,399
experiment where there is a sensor that

814
00:30:52,630 --> 00:30:50,240
detects which of the two slits the

815
00:30:55,190 --> 00:30:52,640
photon goes through the mirror act of

816
00:30:57,909 --> 00:30:55,200
observing what happens forces the photon

817
00:31:00,070 --> 00:30:57,919
to materialize before it hits the board

818
00:31:02,310 --> 00:31:00,080
going through either one slit or the

819
00:31:04,950 --> 00:31:02,320
other and then hitting the wall directly

820
00:31:06,710 --> 00:31:04,960
behind that slit the probability waves

821
00:31:08,710 --> 00:31:06,720
that were interacting to form the

822
00:31:10,870 --> 00:31:08,720
interference pattern before

823
00:31:13,350 --> 00:31:10,880
aren't there anymore because the photon

824
00:31:15,590 --> 00:31:13,360
has been forced to literally pick a lane

825
00:31:16,710 --> 00:31:15,600
and come through the board as one single

826
00:31:19,590 --> 00:31:16,720
photon

827
00:31:20,870 --> 00:31:19,600
so the interference pattern disappears

828
00:31:23,350 --> 00:31:20,880
according to the copenhagen

829
00:31:25,669 --> 00:31:23,360
interpretation the photon exists in a

830
00:31:27,430 --> 00:31:25,679
blurry indeterminate state as a wave

831
00:31:29,509 --> 00:31:27,440
function of probability

832
00:31:31,509 --> 00:31:29,519
it doesn't actually have a definite

833
00:31:32,710 --> 00:31:31,519
position until its wave function

834
00:31:34,710 --> 00:31:32,720
collapses

835
00:31:36,789 --> 00:31:34,720
something that only happens when it is

836
00:31:38,950 --> 00:31:36,799
observed or measured

837
00:31:40,470 --> 00:31:38,960
this position is so radical and so

838
00:31:42,389 --> 00:31:40,480
entirely at odds with our lived

839
00:31:45,190 --> 00:31:42,399
experience that it took even the most

840
00:31:47,110 --> 00:31:45,200
devoted copenhagen adherence a while

841
00:31:48,950 --> 00:31:47,120
before they began to recognize that the

842
00:31:49,750 --> 00:31:48,960
implication of their theory suggests

843
00:31:53,110 --> 00:31:49,760
that

844
00:31:55,269 --> 00:31:53,120
nothing is real unless it is perceived

845
00:31:57,350 --> 00:31:55,279
and as absolutely preposterous as that

846
00:31:59,190 --> 00:31:57,360
may sound there is more and more

847
00:32:01,590 --> 00:31:59,200
evidence that it may actually be the

848
00:32:03,509 --> 00:32:01,600
case in searching for answers to the

849
00:32:05,909 --> 00:32:03,519
mysteries of quantum mechanics we're

850
00:32:07,750 --> 00:32:05,919
increasingly finding astonishing answers

851
00:32:09,669 --> 00:32:07,760
to age-old questions that we once

852
00:32:12,070 --> 00:32:09,679
thought were unanswerable

853
00:32:14,549 --> 00:32:12,080
however for now the copenhagen

854
00:32:16,230 --> 00:32:14,559
interpretation doesn't do much for us

855
00:32:18,470 --> 00:32:16,240
while it doesn't outright eliminate

856
00:32:20,149 --> 00:32:18,480
multiple dimensions as a possibility

857
00:32:22,470 --> 00:32:20,159
this interpretation doesn't require

858
00:32:23,990 --> 00:32:22,480
other dimensions to exist so we'll need

859
00:32:26,149 --> 00:32:24,000
to look elsewhere

860
00:32:28,710 --> 00:32:26,159
the copenhagen interpretation's most

861
00:32:31,190 --> 00:32:28,720
tenacious adversary is referred to as

862
00:32:34,710 --> 00:32:31,200
the many worlds interpretation and was

863
00:32:36,789 --> 00:32:34,720
developed by hugh everett in 1957.

864
00:32:39,269 --> 00:32:36,799
according to everett the wave function

865
00:32:42,470 --> 00:32:39,279
is the true nature of reality and

866
00:32:44,950 --> 00:32:42,480
therefore it never actually collapses it

867
00:32:47,430 --> 00:32:44,960
only appears to collapse because we can

868
00:32:49,269 --> 00:32:47,440
only see one of a potentially infinite

869
00:32:51,029 --> 00:32:49,279
number of outcomes

870
00:32:53,509 --> 00:32:51,039
when the observer looks to see which

871
00:32:56,310 --> 00:32:53,519
slit the photon goes through they see

872
00:32:58,710 --> 00:32:56,320
just one possible outcome because they

873
00:33:00,549 --> 00:32:58,720
are only aware of one world

874
00:33:02,549 --> 00:33:00,559
but in reality there are many

875
00:33:05,110 --> 00:33:02,559
potentially infinite worlds in which

876
00:33:07,590 --> 00:33:05,120
every possible quantum possibility gets

877
00:33:09,830 --> 00:33:07,600
a chance to play itself out and every

878
00:33:11,029 --> 00:33:09,840
world is equally real to the people who

879
00:33:11,830 --> 00:33:11,039
are living in it

880
00:33:14,230 --> 00:33:11,840
so

881
00:33:15,909 --> 00:33:14,240
in your world you see one outcome but

882
00:33:18,310 --> 00:33:15,919
there's a world that exists for each and

883
00:33:20,389 --> 00:33:18,320
every possible outcome and in each of

884
00:33:23,190 --> 00:33:20,399
those worlds you

885
00:33:25,590 --> 00:33:23,200
are experiencing only that outcome

886
00:33:28,070 --> 00:33:25,600
and if that hurts your brain consider

887
00:33:30,149 --> 00:33:28,080
that the photon isn't the only quantum

888
00:33:32,230 --> 00:33:30,159
system in this scenario

889
00:33:34,149 --> 00:33:32,240
you as the observer are part of the

890
00:33:36,549 --> 00:33:34,159
quantum system as well

891
00:33:39,029 --> 00:33:36,559
so each of your actions and decisions

892
00:33:42,310 --> 00:33:39,039
plays out in the same way with every

893
00:33:44,389 --> 00:33:42,320
permutation of every possibility playing

894
00:33:45,909 --> 00:33:44,399
out somewhere in a world that looks a

895
00:33:47,029 --> 00:33:45,919
lot like this one

896
00:33:48,950 --> 00:33:47,039
but isn't

897
00:33:51,430 --> 00:33:48,960
the basic premise of the many worlds

898
00:33:54,149 --> 00:33:51,440
interpretation is that everything that

899
00:33:56,549 --> 00:33:54,159
can happen does happen

900
00:33:58,310 --> 00:33:56,559
and i personally take issue with that as

901
00:33:59,990 --> 00:33:58,320
do others in the scientific community

902
00:34:01,110 --> 00:34:00,000
who know a lot more about this stuff

903
00:34:02,549 --> 00:34:01,120
than i do

904
00:34:05,110 --> 00:34:02,559
and here's why

905
00:34:07,350 --> 00:34:05,120
first of all i get that the human mind's

906
00:34:10,230 --> 00:34:07,360
ability to truly contemplate the concept

907
00:34:12,310 --> 00:34:10,240
of infinity is basically non-existent

908
00:34:14,470 --> 00:34:12,320
and for me personally it's an idea that

909
00:34:16,790 --> 00:34:14,480
feels truly unapproachable

910
00:34:19,349 --> 00:34:16,800
i just can't wrap my mind around it

911
00:34:21,669 --> 00:34:19,359
and i always want to be mindful to not

912
00:34:23,349 --> 00:34:21,679
mistake the limits of my understanding

913
00:34:25,510 --> 00:34:23,359
for the answer

914
00:34:27,909 --> 00:34:25,520
but what the many world's interpretation

915
00:34:30,710 --> 00:34:27,919
requires is that there is an entire

916
00:34:33,750 --> 00:34:30,720
universe erected around the infinite

917
00:34:36,230 --> 00:34:33,760
potential paths of a single photon and

918
00:34:38,950 --> 00:34:36,240
around every other quantum system in the

919
00:34:40,710 --> 00:34:38,960
universe and at every imaginable scale

920
00:34:43,909 --> 00:34:40,720
whether we're talking about a single

921
00:34:45,990 --> 00:34:43,919
atomic particle or a virus or a leaf

922
00:34:49,030 --> 00:34:46,000
blowing on the wind or a human living a

923
00:34:49,909 --> 00:34:49,040
life or a star-going supernova

924
00:34:51,190 --> 00:34:49,919
i mean

925
00:34:53,190 --> 00:34:51,200
what

926
00:34:55,109 --> 00:34:53,200
i know that it's literally infinity that

927
00:34:58,230 --> 00:34:55,119
we're talking about here but that still

928
00:35:00,950 --> 00:34:58,240
feels like i don't know like too much

929
00:35:02,710 --> 00:35:00,960
and beyond just grappling with infinity

930
00:35:05,270 --> 00:35:02,720
there are massive and profound

931
00:35:07,349 --> 00:35:05,280
existential implications to this

932
00:35:08,870 --> 00:35:07,359
so imagine that you're a scientist and

933
00:35:10,069 --> 00:35:08,880
you're conducting the double slit

934
00:35:12,230 --> 00:35:10,079
experiment

935
00:35:14,470 --> 00:35:12,240
you are experiencing and observing one

936
00:35:16,470 --> 00:35:14,480
set of outcomes to the experiment but

937
00:35:18,390 --> 00:35:16,480
every single other possible outcome is

938
00:35:20,470 --> 00:35:18,400
playing out another universe

939
00:35:21,589 --> 00:35:20,480
if everything that can happen does

940
00:35:24,069 --> 00:35:21,599
happen

941
00:35:26,230 --> 00:35:24,079
then what does that say about free will

942
00:35:28,230 --> 00:35:26,240
and our ability to choose

943
00:35:30,710 --> 00:35:28,240
if you make a choice between right and

944
00:35:32,550 --> 00:35:30,720
wrong and decide to do the right thing

945
00:35:34,710 --> 00:35:32,560
does it even matter if in some other

946
00:35:36,150 --> 00:35:34,720
universe you are inevitably going to do

947
00:35:37,910 --> 00:35:36,160
the wrong thing

948
00:35:39,750 --> 00:35:37,920
and did you choose to do the right thing

949
00:35:41,670 --> 00:35:39,760
because it was your choice

950
00:35:44,550 --> 00:35:41,680
or because this is the universe where

951
00:35:46,710 --> 00:35:44,560
you have to make that choice because

952
00:35:48,870 --> 00:35:46,720
with the many world interpretation it's

953
00:35:50,069 --> 00:35:48,880
not just that everything that can happen

954
00:35:52,710 --> 00:35:50,079
does happen

955
00:35:53,990 --> 00:35:52,720
but that everything that can happen has

956
00:35:56,230 --> 00:35:54,000
to happen

957
00:35:59,270 --> 00:35:56,240
and when taken to that extreme an

958
00:36:02,230 --> 00:35:59,280
infinite reality is inherently a

959
00:36:03,910 --> 00:36:02,240
deterministic reality and any illusion

960
00:36:06,230 --> 00:36:03,920
that we have of making a choice is

961
00:36:08,310 --> 00:36:06,240
simply the forced perspective of only

962
00:36:09,190 --> 00:36:08,320
having awareness of one reality at a

963
00:36:11,030 --> 00:36:09,200
time

964
00:36:12,950 --> 00:36:11,040
and that's unsettling

965
00:36:15,190 --> 00:36:12,960
i don't think that anyone likes the idea

966
00:36:16,310 --> 00:36:15,200
of being just another cog in a cosmic

967
00:36:18,710 --> 00:36:16,320
wheel

968
00:36:21,349 --> 00:36:18,720
we want to believe that we have choices

969
00:36:23,430 --> 00:36:21,359
and that we can shape our own destiny or

970
00:36:24,630 --> 00:36:23,440
at the very least that what we do

971
00:36:26,790 --> 00:36:24,640
matters

972
00:36:29,190 --> 00:36:26,800
and i personally don't think that it's

973
00:36:31,990 --> 00:36:29,200
just the protestations of our fragile

974
00:36:34,069 --> 00:36:32,000
human egos that makes us feel that way

975
00:36:37,190 --> 00:36:34,079
we all seem to have a deep sense that

976
00:36:39,190 --> 00:36:37,200
free will is intrinsic to our humanity

977
00:36:41,109 --> 00:36:39,200
it's hard to fully embrace a theory that

978
00:36:43,510 --> 00:36:41,119
deals so dismissively with something

979
00:36:44,870 --> 00:36:43,520
that seems so foundational to our lived

980
00:36:46,470 --> 00:36:44,880
experience

981
00:36:47,990 --> 00:36:46,480
that doesn't necessarily mean that we

982
00:36:50,150 --> 00:36:48,000
can rule it out

983
00:36:52,470 --> 00:36:50,160
but it is something to consider

984
00:36:54,230 --> 00:36:52,480
but the many world interpretation

985
00:36:57,349 --> 00:36:54,240
doesn't just unravel our sense of our

986
00:36:58,390 --> 00:36:57,359
humanity but of the individual self as

987
00:37:00,550 --> 00:36:58,400
well

988
00:37:02,390 --> 00:37:00,560
if every choice and every measurement

989
00:37:04,790 --> 00:37:02,400
splits off into another different

990
00:37:06,630 --> 00:37:04,800
version of you each with its own unique

991
00:37:09,430 --> 00:37:06,640
experiences thoughts and sense of

992
00:37:12,710 --> 00:37:09,440
identity then what even is the entity

993
00:37:15,270 --> 00:37:12,720
that we're calling you in this scenario

994
00:37:17,750 --> 00:37:15,280
once again this isn't necessarily a deal

995
00:37:19,349 --> 00:37:17,760
breaker but at the very least we have to

996
00:37:21,510 --> 00:37:19,359
recognize that the many world

997
00:37:23,430 --> 00:37:21,520
interpretation if true

998
00:37:24,710 --> 00:37:23,440
obliterates our understanding of the

999
00:37:26,790 --> 00:37:24,720
self

1000
00:37:28,630 --> 00:37:26,800
and there are other issues with the many

1001
00:37:30,390 --> 00:37:28,640
world interpretation

1002
00:37:32,470 --> 00:37:30,400
the problem at the heart of quantum

1003
00:37:35,190 --> 00:37:32,480
mechanics that many worlds is trying to

1004
00:37:37,270 --> 00:37:35,200
solve is the measurement problem

1005
00:37:39,829 --> 00:37:37,280
we know that measuring an event will

1006
00:37:41,990 --> 00:37:39,839
have a direct impact on its outcome

1007
00:37:45,030 --> 00:37:42,000
but we don't understand the mechanism

1008
00:37:47,589 --> 00:37:45,040
behind why or how that happens

1009
00:37:50,230 --> 00:37:47,599
and many worlds handles this by saying

1010
00:37:52,710 --> 00:37:50,240
that this problem is only an illusion

1011
00:37:54,950 --> 00:37:52,720
the wave function never really collapses

1012
00:37:57,190 --> 00:37:54,960
it just looks like it does to us

1013
00:37:59,430 --> 00:37:57,200
but when you think about it

1014
00:38:01,829 --> 00:37:59,440
that's not really an answer either

1015
00:38:03,990 --> 00:38:01,839
first of all it doesn't actually solve

1016
00:38:05,510 --> 00:38:04,000
the measurement problem it just takes

1017
00:38:07,589 --> 00:38:05,520
the parts that don't make sense and

1018
00:38:11,030 --> 00:38:07,599
relegates them to other dimensions

1019
00:38:13,109 --> 00:38:11,040
places that we conveniently can't access

1020
00:38:15,030 --> 00:38:13,119
many believers point to the elegance and

1021
00:38:17,589 --> 00:38:15,040
simplicity of many worlds as

1022
00:38:20,550 --> 00:38:17,599
self-evident proof of its reality

1023
00:38:23,030 --> 00:38:20,560
but elegant as it may be you can't just

1024
00:38:25,430 --> 00:38:23,040
take an unprovable hypothesis and assume

1025
00:38:27,510 --> 00:38:25,440
that it's true because it appears to

1026
00:38:29,589 --> 00:38:27,520
describe and predict reality as you

1027
00:38:32,069 --> 00:38:29,599
perceive it especially when the

1028
00:38:34,470 --> 00:38:32,079
hypothesis itself basically by

1029
00:38:36,390 --> 00:38:34,480
definition predicts experimental

1030
00:38:37,829 --> 00:38:36,400
outcomes that are fully consistent with

1031
00:38:39,910 --> 00:38:37,839
what we observe

1032
00:38:42,550 --> 00:38:39,920
now i know i just said a lot of words

1033
00:38:44,630 --> 00:38:42,560
and if you're confused no worries i

1034
00:38:46,390 --> 00:38:44,640
honestly am confusing myself

1035
00:38:48,870 --> 00:38:46,400
all you really need to understand

1036
00:38:51,829 --> 00:38:48,880
is that the many world's interpretation

1037
00:38:53,589 --> 00:38:51,839
relies on circular reasoning we observe

1038
00:38:54,790 --> 00:38:53,599
what we observe because it's what we

1039
00:38:56,470 --> 00:38:54,800
can't observe

1040
00:38:58,550 --> 00:38:56,480
there's nothing technically wrong with

1041
00:39:01,349 --> 00:38:58,560
that statement but it's hardly a

1042
00:39:03,030 --> 00:39:01,359
satisfying explanation for anything

1043
00:39:05,270 --> 00:39:03,040
and i want to stop here for just a

1044
00:39:07,349 --> 00:39:05,280
second to make a distinction between the

1045
00:39:09,750 --> 00:39:07,359
many worlds interpretation and the

1046
00:39:12,150 --> 00:39:09,760
concept of the multiverse thanks to

1047
00:39:14,230 --> 00:39:12,160
shows like rick and morty these concepts

1048
00:39:16,470 --> 00:39:14,240
have become more common in mainstream

1049
00:39:18,470 --> 00:39:16,480
discourse but they are often used

1050
00:39:19,829 --> 00:39:18,480
interchangeably which can cause some

1051
00:39:21,670 --> 00:39:19,839
confusion

1052
00:39:23,510 --> 00:39:21,680
as we've discussed many worlds is

1053
00:39:25,750 --> 00:39:23,520
specifically an interpretation of

1054
00:39:27,270 --> 00:39:25,760
quantum mechanics that says that there

1055
00:39:29,589 --> 00:39:27,280
is a universe in which every

1056
00:39:32,150 --> 00:39:29,599
probabilistic outcome occurs

1057
00:39:34,870 --> 00:39:32,160
the multiverse theory is similar but the

1058
00:39:37,109 --> 00:39:34,880
mechanism of how the universes come into

1059
00:39:38,950 --> 00:39:37,119
existence is different for many who

1060
00:39:41,270 --> 00:39:38,960
believe in the multiverse a near

1061
00:39:43,510 --> 00:39:41,280
infinite number of universes sprang into

1062
00:39:44,550 --> 00:39:43,520
being less than a second after the big

1063
00:39:46,390 --> 00:39:44,560
bang

1064
00:39:48,550 --> 00:39:46,400
each of these universes would have its

1065
00:39:50,470 --> 00:39:48,560
own laws of physics its own collection

1066
00:39:52,630 --> 00:39:50,480
of particles its own arrangement of

1067
00:39:53,750 --> 00:39:52,640
forces and its own values of fundamental

1068
00:39:55,670 --> 00:39:53,760
constants

1069
00:39:57,430 --> 00:39:55,680
and would be unique from each other in

1070
00:39:58,150 --> 00:39:57,440
virtually every way

1071
00:39:59,670 --> 00:39:58,160
so

1072
00:40:01,430 --> 00:39:59,680
what evidence do we have that the

1073
00:40:03,670 --> 00:40:01,440
multiverse could be real

1074
00:40:05,750 --> 00:40:03,680
well for most advocates of this theory

1075
00:40:07,670 --> 00:40:05,760
the best evidence for the multiverse is

1076
00:40:10,470 --> 00:40:07,680
that we exist

1077
00:40:11,829 --> 00:40:10,480
complex life forms capable of scientific

1078
00:40:13,750 --> 00:40:11,839
inquiry

1079
00:40:15,589 --> 00:40:13,760
this is because we know about our own

1080
00:40:18,230 --> 00:40:15,599
universe that it appears to be

1081
00:40:20,630 --> 00:40:18,240
particularly well suited for life

1082
00:40:23,190 --> 00:40:20,640
things such as the longevity of stars

1083
00:40:24,950 --> 00:40:23,200
the abundance of carbon the availability

1084
00:40:27,750 --> 00:40:24,960
of light for photosynthesis and the

1085
00:40:29,910 --> 00:40:27,760
stability of complex nuclei

1086
00:40:31,270 --> 00:40:29,920
make it possible for life as we know it

1087
00:40:33,589 --> 00:40:31,280
to emerge

1088
00:40:35,670 --> 00:40:33,599
however if any of the starting

1089
00:40:37,910 --> 00:40:35,680
conditions of our universe had been even

1090
00:40:39,589 --> 00:40:37,920
slightly different the results could

1091
00:40:41,829 --> 00:40:39,599
have been very different

1092
00:40:44,230 --> 00:40:41,839
and this is troublesome for scientists

1093
00:40:46,230 --> 00:40:44,240
because the chances that everything

1094
00:40:48,470 --> 00:40:46,240
would be so perfectly balanced in our

1095
00:40:51,109 --> 00:40:48,480
universe that we are even able to evolve

1096
00:40:53,829 --> 00:40:51,119
to the point to ask these questions

1097
00:40:56,470 --> 00:40:53,839
must be vanishingly small

1098
00:40:58,870 --> 00:40:56,480
and so for many the most logical

1099
00:41:01,510 --> 00:40:58,880
explanation is that there must be an

1100
00:41:04,550 --> 00:41:01,520
infinite number of universes the vast

1101
00:41:06,870 --> 00:41:04,560
majority of which are likely lifeless

1102
00:41:09,030 --> 00:41:06,880
but inevitably if you roll the cosmic

1103
00:41:11,190 --> 00:41:09,040
dice an infinite number of times you'll

1104
00:41:13,910 --> 00:41:11,200
eventually get the conditions for life

1105
00:41:15,910 --> 00:41:13,920
which is how we're here so like the many

1106
00:41:18,309 --> 00:41:15,920
worlds interpretation what we have here

1107
00:41:19,750 --> 00:41:18,319
is basically a blanket explanation to

1108
00:41:21,829 --> 00:41:19,760
explain something that should be

1109
00:41:24,230 --> 00:41:21,839
impossible with something that we can't

1110
00:41:25,190 --> 00:41:24,240
access or experience much less prove or

1111
00:41:27,589 --> 00:41:25,200
measure

1112
00:41:30,069 --> 00:41:27,599
which isn't necessarily to say that it's

1113
00:41:32,790 --> 00:41:30,079
wrong but if we remember back to episode

1114
00:41:35,990 --> 00:41:32,800
2 and the 2nd century ad astronomer

1115
00:41:37,750 --> 00:41:36,000
ptolemy we have a perfect example of why

1116
00:41:39,430 --> 00:41:37,760
we need to be skeptical of these types

1117
00:41:41,589 --> 00:41:39,440
of explanations

1118
00:41:43,270 --> 00:41:41,599
as you'll recall ptolemy was the first

1119
00:41:44,870 --> 00:41:43,280
to challenge the idea that the heavenly

1120
00:41:47,510 --> 00:41:44,880
bodies moved through the sky in

1121
00:41:49,270 --> 00:41:47,520
perfectly circular orbits they moved

1122
00:41:50,710 --> 00:41:49,280
forward and backward across the night

1123
00:41:52,790 --> 00:41:50,720
sky in ways that should have been

1124
00:41:53,910 --> 00:41:52,800
impossible if their orbits were truly

1125
00:41:56,470 --> 00:41:53,920
circular

1126
00:41:58,470 --> 00:41:56,480
so ptolemy created a model that showed

1127
00:42:00,630 --> 00:41:58,480
the planets moving in more elaborate

1128
00:42:03,109 --> 00:42:00,640
orbits with twists and loops

1129
00:42:05,589 --> 00:42:03,119
his model was so accurate and predicted

1130
00:42:08,190 --> 00:42:05,599
the positions of the celestial bodies so

1131
00:42:10,230 --> 00:42:08,200
perfectly that it was used for the next

1132
00:42:13,510 --> 00:42:10,240
1400 years

1133
00:42:15,829 --> 00:42:13,520
but it was also completely wrong

1134
00:42:18,550 --> 00:42:15,839
and so the problem with both of these

1135
00:42:20,309 --> 00:42:18,560
theories of multiple universes is that

1136
00:42:22,390 --> 00:42:20,319
although they don't contradict our

1137
00:42:24,230 --> 00:42:22,400
current models and understanding and

1138
00:42:25,750 --> 00:42:24,240
although they are predictive to a degree

1139
00:42:27,270 --> 00:42:25,760
that they've allowed us to make giant

1140
00:42:29,190 --> 00:42:27,280
strides in our technology and our

1141
00:42:31,270 --> 00:42:29,200
understanding of the universe

1142
00:42:34,069 --> 00:42:31,280
until we have a way of verifying

1143
00:42:36,309 --> 00:42:34,079
scientifically that they even exist

1144
00:42:38,790 --> 00:42:36,319
it's all purely speculative

1145
00:42:41,270 --> 00:42:38,800
and chances are these theories are wrong

1146
00:42:43,510 --> 00:42:41,280
in some major way that we just can't see

1147
00:42:45,190 --> 00:42:43,520
yet there's one more distinction that we

1148
00:42:47,109 --> 00:42:45,200
need to make beyond just the difference

1149
00:42:48,550 --> 00:42:47,119
between the many worlds interpretation

1150
00:42:50,870 --> 00:42:48,560
and the multiverse

1151
00:42:53,510 --> 00:42:50,880
and that's between multiple universes

1152
00:42:55,829 --> 00:42:53,520
and multiple dimensions we often use

1153
00:42:57,430 --> 00:42:55,839
those ideas interchangeably but there is

1154
00:42:59,190 --> 00:42:57,440
a difference there as well

1155
00:43:01,190 --> 00:42:59,200
what we've talked about so far is

1156
00:43:03,430 --> 00:43:01,200
multiple universes but multiple

1157
00:43:05,589 --> 00:43:03,440
dimensions would work differently

1158
00:43:07,430 --> 00:43:05,599
think of it this way we are third

1159
00:43:09,829 --> 00:43:07,440
dimensional beings that exist in the

1160
00:43:11,750 --> 00:43:09,839
fourth dimension which is time

1161
00:43:13,349 --> 00:43:11,760
to begin to understand how wildly

1162
00:43:15,670 --> 00:43:13,359
different a different dimension would be

1163
00:43:17,510 --> 00:43:15,680
from a different universe just try to

1164
00:43:19,270 --> 00:43:17,520
conceive of what a fourth dimensional

1165
00:43:20,550 --> 00:43:19,280
being living in the fifth dimension

1166
00:43:21,910 --> 00:43:20,560
might look like

1167
00:43:23,589 --> 00:43:21,920
having trouble

1168
00:43:24,470 --> 00:43:23,599
yeah my brain doesn't work that way

1169
00:43:26,150 --> 00:43:24,480
either

1170
00:43:29,270 --> 00:43:26,160
and honestly i don't want to get bogged

1171
00:43:31,030 --> 00:43:29,280
down here if you go to uforabbithole.com

1172
00:43:33,190 --> 00:43:31,040
you can find the full episode notes for

1173
00:43:35,430 --> 00:43:33,200
this episode and i'll include a bunch of

1174
00:43:37,349 --> 00:43:35,440
bonus videos and reading from people

1175
00:43:39,910 --> 00:43:37,359
much smarter than me for anyone who

1176
00:43:41,750 --> 00:43:39,920
wants to more fully explore this concept

1177
00:43:43,190 --> 00:43:41,760
and while you're there be sure to sign

1178
00:43:45,109 --> 00:43:43,200
up for the email list so that you can

1179
00:43:47,109 --> 00:43:45,119
get each new episode along with a full

1180
00:43:49,270 --> 00:43:47,119
episode brief sent right to your inbox

1181
00:43:50,230 --> 00:43:49,280
as soon as it's released shameless plug

1182
00:43:51,430 --> 00:43:50,240
over

1183
00:43:53,510 --> 00:43:51,440
but for the purposes of this

1184
00:43:55,670 --> 00:43:53,520
conversation it's not important that you

1185
00:43:56,790 --> 00:43:55,680
be able to visualize or understand

1186
00:43:58,630 --> 00:43:56,800
dimensions

1187
00:44:00,630 --> 00:43:58,640
only that you know from a very high

1188
00:44:02,470 --> 00:44:00,640
level what they are

1189
00:44:04,150 --> 00:44:02,480
and no conversation about dimensions

1190
00:44:05,750 --> 00:44:04,160
would be complete without discussing

1191
00:44:09,750 --> 00:44:05,760
string theory

1192
00:44:12,069 --> 00:44:09,760
fundamental constituents of the universe

1193
00:44:13,750 --> 00:44:12,079
are one-dimensional strings rather than

1194
00:44:15,510 --> 00:44:13,760
point-like particles

1195
00:44:18,069 --> 00:44:15,520
what we perceive as particles are

1196
00:44:19,750 --> 00:44:18,079
actually vibrations in loops of strings

1197
00:44:21,190 --> 00:44:19,760
each with its own characteristic

1198
00:44:23,270 --> 00:44:21,200
frequency

1199
00:44:25,430 --> 00:44:23,280
i'll be real and tell you that i don't

1200
00:44:27,910 --> 00:44:25,440
totally get strength theory either

1201
00:44:29,510 --> 00:44:27,920
but right now we don't need to there are

1202
00:44:30,950 --> 00:44:29,520
basically two things that you need to

1203
00:44:33,510 --> 00:44:30,960
know about string theory that are worth

1204
00:44:35,589 --> 00:44:33,520
mentioning here the first is that unlike

1205
00:44:37,670 --> 00:44:35,599
the universes in many worlds or in the

1206
00:44:39,430 --> 00:44:37,680
multiverse theory the dimensions

1207
00:44:42,150 --> 00:44:39,440
proposed by string theory aren't

1208
00:44:43,589 --> 00:44:42,160
infinite in fact they are specifically

1209
00:44:45,430 --> 00:44:43,599
seven dimensions

1210
00:44:47,430 --> 00:44:45,440
this has to do with how the dimensions

1211
00:44:49,109 --> 00:44:47,440
fold into each other like nesting dolls

1212
00:44:50,710 --> 00:44:49,119
and once again i'll include bonus

1213
00:44:52,230 --> 00:44:50,720
materials for this in the episode notes

1214
00:44:55,030 --> 00:44:52,240
if you want to learn more

1215
00:44:57,030 --> 00:44:55,040
however within these 11 dimensions

1216
00:45:00,950 --> 00:44:57,040
string theory can reasonably predict a

1217
00:45:03,510 --> 00:45:00,960
multiverse populated by 10 to the 500th

1218
00:45:05,430 --> 00:45:03,520
different universes and while that's not

1219
00:45:06,790 --> 00:45:05,440
technically an infinite number it really

1220
00:45:09,910 --> 00:45:06,800
might as well be

1221
00:45:13,109 --> 00:45:09,920
after all 10 to the 82nd is the number

1222
00:45:16,630 --> 00:45:13,119
of atoms in the universe so 10 to the

1223
00:45:18,309 --> 00:45:16,640
500th is just incomprehensibly big and

1224
00:45:20,550 --> 00:45:18,319
like the many worlds interpretation and

1225
00:45:22,790 --> 00:45:20,560
the multiverse theory string theory is

1226
00:45:25,109 --> 00:45:22,800
still entirely hypothetical

1227
00:45:26,550 --> 00:45:25,119
thus far we have no real way to verify

1228
00:45:29,990 --> 00:45:26,560
if it's true or not

1229
00:45:31,589 --> 00:45:30,000
okay so that was a lot of information so

1230
00:45:32,790 --> 00:45:31,599
after all of that

1231
00:45:34,630 --> 00:45:32,800
where does the interdimensional

1232
00:45:36,470 --> 00:45:34,640
hypothesis shake out

1233
00:45:38,630 --> 00:45:36,480
well like anything else having to do

1234
00:45:41,190 --> 00:45:38,640
with the ufo phenomenon the answer is

1235
00:45:43,109 --> 00:45:41,200
complicated as we've established we

1236
00:45:45,030 --> 00:45:43,119
don't have any direct evidence that

1237
00:45:47,190 --> 00:45:45,040
other universes exist

1238
00:45:49,190 --> 00:45:47,200
we know that other dimensions exist at

1239
00:45:51,109 --> 00:45:49,200
least so far as we know that we're third

1240
00:45:53,270 --> 00:45:51,119
dimensional beings and there exists a

1241
00:45:55,109 --> 00:45:53,280
fourth dimension but exactly how

1242
00:45:56,950 --> 00:45:55,119
dimensions work and whether or not we

1243
00:45:59,270 --> 00:45:56,960
would even be able to perceive beings

1244
00:46:01,430 --> 00:45:59,280
that came from another dimension is all

1245
00:46:03,270 --> 00:46:01,440
highly speculative and this can be

1246
00:46:05,270 --> 00:46:03,280
extremely unsatisfying for anyone

1247
00:46:07,670 --> 00:46:05,280
looking for a solid scientific footing

1248
00:46:09,510 --> 00:46:07,680
from which to assess this hypothesis

1249
00:46:11,349 --> 00:46:09,520
each of these theories relies on the

1250
00:46:12,950 --> 00:46:11,359
concept of infinity to explain

1251
00:46:15,190 --> 00:46:12,960
phenomenon that would be otherwise

1252
00:46:17,430 --> 00:46:15,200
unexplainable and all of them are

1253
00:46:19,829 --> 00:46:17,440
ultimately unprovable because we can't

1254
00:46:21,030 --> 00:46:19,839
perceive or access these other universes

1255
00:46:23,510 --> 00:46:21,040
and dimensions

1256
00:46:24,950 --> 00:46:23,520
however it is worth considering the fact

1257
00:46:27,030 --> 00:46:24,960
that some of the best and brightest

1258
00:46:29,270 --> 00:46:27,040
minds of the last century have spent

1259
00:46:31,109 --> 00:46:29,280
their careers working on some of the

1260
00:46:32,870 --> 00:46:31,119
biggest and most baffling questions that

1261
00:46:34,870 --> 00:46:32,880
science has to ask

1262
00:46:36,870 --> 00:46:34,880
and many of them have now come up with

1263
00:46:39,670 --> 00:46:36,880
some version of the same idea to answer

1264
00:46:41,670 --> 00:46:39,680
it and those models though unprovable

1265
00:46:43,430 --> 00:46:41,680
are still predictive enough to allow us

1266
00:46:45,589 --> 00:46:43,440
to make ground-breaking breakthroughs in

1267
00:46:47,270 --> 00:46:45,599
technology ranging from led lights to

1268
00:46:48,950 --> 00:46:47,280
quantum computers

1269
00:46:49,910 --> 00:46:48,960
so maybe there's something to this after

1270
00:46:52,309 --> 00:46:49,920
all

1271
00:46:54,550 --> 00:46:52,319
ptolemy's model of the planetary orbits

1272
00:46:55,990 --> 00:46:54,560
wasn't correct but it was a vast

1273
00:46:58,230 --> 00:46:56,000
improvement over the models that came

1274
00:47:01,030 --> 00:46:58,240
before it and it more than served its

1275
00:47:02,870 --> 00:47:01,040
purpose for 1400 years until the next

1276
00:47:04,950 --> 00:47:02,880
leap in our understanding allowed us to

1277
00:47:06,470 --> 00:47:04,960
discover their true orbits

1278
00:47:08,230 --> 00:47:06,480
and so it will likely be with our

1279
00:47:10,069 --> 00:47:08,240
understanding of parallel worlds and

1280
00:47:11,990 --> 00:47:10,079
dimensions when we finally take that

1281
00:47:13,750 --> 00:47:12,000
next step in our evolution

1282
00:47:15,589 --> 00:47:13,760
our current theories will likely prove

1283
00:47:19,190 --> 00:47:15,599
to be much the same as ptolemy's model

1284
00:47:21,510 --> 00:47:19,200
of the cosmos partly true partly false

1285
00:47:24,710 --> 00:47:21,520
and with some vital truth still yet

1286
00:47:26,870 --> 00:47:24,720
unknown to us suddenly revealed one more

1287
00:47:29,030 --> 00:47:26,880
idea i want to touch on here before we

1288
00:47:30,870 --> 00:47:29,040
move on is what the interdimensional

1289
00:47:33,589 --> 00:47:30,880
hypothesis suggests

1290
00:47:36,309 --> 00:47:33,599
not just about the ufo phenomenon but

1291
00:47:38,790 --> 00:47:36,319
about the paranormal in general

1292
00:47:40,470 --> 00:47:38,800
the word paranormal simply refers to

1293
00:47:42,630 --> 00:47:40,480
things that are beyond the scope of

1294
00:47:44,549 --> 00:47:42,640
normal scientific understanding

1295
00:47:46,309 --> 00:47:44,559
and while the scientifically minded

1296
00:47:48,470 --> 00:47:46,319
among us can be quick to dismiss the

1297
00:47:50,950 --> 00:47:48,480
paranormal as ridiculous

1298
00:47:52,950 --> 00:47:50,960
the reality is that this realm beyond

1299
00:47:55,270 --> 00:47:52,960
our understanding is where many of the

1300
00:47:56,950 --> 00:47:55,280
brightest scientific minds are spending

1301
00:47:58,710 --> 00:47:56,960
most of their time

1302
00:48:01,510 --> 00:47:58,720
and from whence most of our most

1303
00:48:04,150 --> 00:48:01,520
startling breakthroughs are being made

1304
00:48:06,710 --> 00:48:04,160
we like to think that science sees all

1305
00:48:08,870 --> 00:48:06,720
and knows all but science is just a

1306
00:48:11,270 --> 00:48:08,880
method of inquiry that allows us to

1307
00:48:13,430 --> 00:48:11,280
slowly and incrementally move back the

1308
00:48:15,510 --> 00:48:13,440
veil that keeps the truth behind the

1309
00:48:18,069 --> 00:48:15,520
mysteries of the universe shrouded from

1310
00:48:20,710 --> 00:48:18,079
our sight revealing a deeper and deeper

1311
00:48:23,109 --> 00:48:20,720
understanding of what it is and while

1312
00:48:24,710 --> 00:48:23,119
it's impossible to say what lies just

1313
00:48:26,470 --> 00:48:24,720
beyond the veil

1314
00:48:28,870 --> 00:48:26,480
many scientists believe that what is

1315
00:48:29,990 --> 00:48:28,880
there could very well be infinite in

1316
00:48:31,349 --> 00:48:30,000
nature

1317
00:48:33,750 --> 00:48:31,359
and the thing about an infinite

1318
00:48:35,270 --> 00:48:33,760
multiverse is that if it is possible for

1319
00:48:37,750 --> 00:48:35,280
beings to travel between different

1320
00:48:40,870 --> 00:48:37,760
worlds and dimensions than someone

1321
00:48:43,510 --> 00:48:40,880
somewhere and likely very many someones

1322
00:48:45,750 --> 00:48:43,520
would definitely figure out how to do so

1323
00:48:47,109 --> 00:48:45,760
and in that scenario it's not so much a

1324
00:48:49,510 --> 00:48:47,119
matter of if

1325
00:48:52,309 --> 00:48:49,520
but when and how often humans would

1326
00:48:54,069 --> 00:48:52,319
encounter them and these beings whatever

1327
00:48:56,230 --> 00:48:54,079
and whoever they might be

1328
00:48:57,750 --> 00:48:56,240
could look a lot like us potentially

1329
00:48:59,430 --> 00:48:57,760
exactly like us

1330
00:49:01,190 --> 00:48:59,440
or they could come from a universe that

1331
00:49:03,270 --> 00:49:01,200
is so different that we wouldn't even

1332
00:49:04,710 --> 00:49:03,280
necessarily recognize them as life forms

1333
00:49:06,950 --> 00:49:04,720
at all

1334
00:49:08,309 --> 00:49:06,960
so could ufos potentially be visitors

1335
00:49:09,430 --> 00:49:08,319
from another universe or another

1336
00:49:10,790 --> 00:49:09,440
dimension

1337
00:49:12,630 --> 00:49:10,800
absolutely

1338
00:49:14,069 --> 00:49:12,640
but if that's possible

1339
00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:14,079
what else might be coming through the

1340
00:50:17,510 --> 00:49:16,530
veil that defies our understanding

1341
00:50:21,510 --> 00:50:19,349
and now we arrive at perhaps the

1342
00:50:23,430 --> 00:50:21,520
strangest of the possible explanations

1343
00:50:26,549 --> 00:50:23,440
for the ufo phenomenon the

1344
00:50:28,470 --> 00:50:26,559
ultra-terrestrial hypothesis one of the

1345
00:50:30,309 --> 00:50:28,480
main reasons that the ultra-terrestrial

1346
00:50:32,630 --> 00:50:30,319
hypothesis has been getting so much

1347
00:50:34,950 --> 00:50:32,640
attention lately has been as the result

1348
00:50:37,510 --> 00:50:34,960
of comments made by former head of atip

1349
00:50:39,430 --> 00:50:37,520
himself lou elizondo

1350
00:50:41,670 --> 00:50:39,440
when listening to lou speak something

1351
00:50:43,990 --> 00:50:41,680
that becomes immediately obvious is the

1352
00:50:46,470 --> 00:50:44,000
care with which he chooses his words

1353
00:50:49,109 --> 00:50:46,480
and he has to as a former member of the

1354
00:50:50,710 --> 00:50:49,119
u.s military and intelligence apparatus

1355
00:50:53,589 --> 00:50:50,720
he still maintains his security

1356
00:50:56,069 --> 00:50:53,599
clearance and has an ironclad mda

1357
00:50:57,750 --> 00:50:56,079
this creates a curious situation where

1358
00:50:59,750 --> 00:50:57,760
all the things that people most want to

1359
00:51:02,069 --> 00:50:59,760
talk to him about are often the very

1360
00:51:04,549 --> 00:51:02,079
things that he can't talk about

1361
00:51:06,470 --> 00:51:04,559
and yet elizondo is still adept at

1362
00:51:08,870 --> 00:51:06,480
giving engaging and thought-provoking

1363
00:51:11,349 --> 00:51:08,880
interviews on the ufo phenomenon by

1364
00:51:13,829 --> 00:51:11,359
reframing questions and his responses in

1365
00:51:15,670 --> 00:51:13,839
a way that allow him to speak broadly

1366
00:51:17,430 --> 00:51:15,680
and speculatively about the subject

1367
00:51:18,950 --> 00:51:17,440
without technically giving away any

1368
00:51:21,109 --> 00:51:18,960
state secrets

1369
00:51:23,109 --> 00:51:21,119
he has said openly that he leaves clues

1370
00:51:25,030 --> 00:51:23,119
and breadcrumbs for people to follow and

1371
00:51:26,950 --> 00:51:25,040
as a result every time he does an

1372
00:51:28,870 --> 00:51:26,960
interview there's a large segment of the

1373
00:51:30,950 --> 00:51:28,880
ufo community that will spend weeks

1374
00:51:32,790 --> 00:51:30,960
dissecting and analyzing everything he

1375
00:51:34,630 --> 00:51:32,800
says and looking for clues

1376
00:51:36,549 --> 00:51:34,640
and there's one statement in particular

1377
00:51:38,470 --> 00:51:36,559
that has gotten a lot of attention and

1378
00:51:40,390 --> 00:51:38,480
has caused many people to give more

1379
00:51:41,990 --> 00:51:40,400
consideration to the ultra-terrestrial

1380
00:51:44,069 --> 00:51:42,000
hypothesis

1381
00:51:45,829 --> 00:51:44,079
during an interview lou was asked if

1382
00:51:47,589 --> 00:51:45,839
there was any fictional works that

1383
00:51:50,069 --> 00:51:47,599
people could read that would give them

1384
00:51:52,630 --> 00:51:50,079
an idea of what the phenomenon is and

1385
00:51:54,390 --> 00:51:52,640
his answer was surprising

1386
00:51:57,109 --> 00:51:54,400
lou recommended a little-known book of

1387
00:51:59,190 --> 00:51:57,119
short stories called chains of the sea

1388
00:52:02,069 --> 00:51:59,200
and specifically the second of the three

1389
00:52:04,069 --> 00:52:02,079
stories in that trilogy by the same name

1390
00:52:06,150 --> 00:52:04,079
i haven't actually gotten an opportunity

1391
00:52:08,950 --> 00:52:06,160
to read the book it's so rare at this

1392
00:52:10,950 --> 00:52:08,960
point that copies go for like 500

1393
00:52:12,950 --> 00:52:10,960
but having read several summaries and

1394
00:52:15,349 --> 00:52:12,960
excerpts from people who have read it

1395
00:52:17,910 --> 00:52:15,359
here is the general gist alien ships

1396
00:52:20,069 --> 00:52:17,920
arrive on earth landing in delaware ohio

1397
00:52:23,349 --> 00:52:20,079
colorado and venezuela

1398
00:52:25,270 --> 00:52:23,359
humans true to form try unsuccessfully

1399
00:52:27,190 --> 00:52:25,280
to fight the aliens and then desperately

1400
00:52:29,430 --> 00:52:27,200
try to cover up the landings

1401
00:52:31,589 --> 00:52:29,440
the aliens however have very little

1402
00:52:34,230 --> 00:52:31,599
interest in humans and basically ignore

1403
00:52:36,390 --> 00:52:34,240
them choosing instead to communicate

1404
00:52:37,430 --> 00:52:36,400
with ai that has been created by the

1405
00:52:39,510 --> 00:52:37,440
humans

1406
00:52:41,430 --> 00:52:39,520
the ai has evolved to the point where

1407
00:52:43,510 --> 00:52:41,440
it's smarter than humans and it's

1408
00:52:45,670 --> 00:52:43,520
figured out a way to hide communications

1409
00:52:47,829 --> 00:52:45,680
from them through back channels

1410
00:52:50,710 --> 00:52:47,839
in these talks the aliens reveal to the

1411
00:52:54,150 --> 00:52:50,720
ai that earth isn't ruled by humans or

1412
00:52:56,790 --> 00:52:54,160
ai but by previously unknown races of

1413
00:52:59,190 --> 00:52:56,800
non-human intelligent beings with whom

1414
00:53:01,589 --> 00:52:59,200
we share space but that can only be seen

1415
00:53:03,109 --> 00:53:01,599
sometimes and by some people

1416
00:53:05,190 --> 00:53:03,119
interesting right

1417
00:53:07,750 --> 00:53:05,200
now it's important to pause here and say

1418
00:53:09,750 --> 00:53:07,760
that lou has said multiple times that he

1419
00:53:12,390 --> 00:53:09,760
didn't mean to imply that anything about

1420
00:53:14,549 --> 00:53:12,400
the plot of the story is literally true

1421
00:53:15,829 --> 00:53:14,559
instead he says that the story is useful

1422
00:53:18,150 --> 00:53:15,839
because it helps people think

1423
00:53:20,150 --> 00:53:18,160
differently about the phenomenon

1424
00:53:22,950 --> 00:53:20,160
so while chains of the sea may not be

1425
00:53:24,390 --> 00:53:22,960
literally true it does open up a vast

1426
00:53:25,750 --> 00:53:24,400
and exhilarating new world of

1427
00:53:27,430 --> 00:53:25,760
possibilities

1428
00:53:29,589 --> 00:53:27,440
and hearing someone with so much

1429
00:53:31,829 --> 00:53:29,599
privileged insider knowledge makes such

1430
00:53:34,470 --> 00:53:31,839
a strong case for what in his words is

1431
00:53:36,150 --> 00:53:34,480
an ultra-terrestrial universe

1432
00:53:38,069 --> 00:53:36,160
it makes it hard not to just let your

1433
00:53:40,150 --> 00:53:38,079
imagination run wild

1434
00:53:41,270 --> 00:53:40,160
so let's take a little time to play with

1435
00:53:43,270 --> 00:53:41,280
this idea

1436
00:53:45,910 --> 00:53:43,280
as you might imagine this topic is

1437
00:53:47,430 --> 00:53:45,920
sprawling and more than a little bizarre

1438
00:53:49,589 --> 00:53:47,440
we'll only just be able to scratch the

1439
00:53:51,349 --> 00:53:49,599
surface in this episode but we can at

1440
00:53:53,270 --> 00:53:51,359
least explore the high points and from

1441
00:53:55,270 --> 00:53:53,280
there take in some of the more exotic

1442
00:53:58,390 --> 00:53:55,280
vistas it has to offer

1443
00:54:00,230 --> 00:53:58,400
so to start with we need to examine the

1444
00:54:02,150 --> 00:54:00,240
frankly startling idea at the heart of

1445
00:54:04,309 --> 00:54:02,160
the ultra-terrestrial hypothesis which

1446
00:54:06,950 --> 00:54:04,319
is that we could potentially be sharing

1447
00:54:09,750 --> 00:54:06,960
our planet with one or more intelligent

1448
00:54:10,549 --> 00:54:09,760
non-human species without being aware of

1449
00:54:12,549 --> 00:54:10,559
it

1450
00:54:14,790 --> 00:54:12,559
i mean is that even possible

1451
00:54:16,710 --> 00:54:14,800
let's take the case of cryptids if you

1452
00:54:18,390 --> 00:54:16,720
aren't familiar with that term a cryptid

1453
00:54:20,390 --> 00:54:18,400
is an animal that some people claim to

1454
00:54:22,790 --> 00:54:20,400
exist but whose existence has never been

1455
00:54:25,030 --> 00:54:22,800
definitely proven popular examples that

1456
00:54:26,390 --> 00:54:25,040
come to mind include bigfoot or the loch

1457
00:54:28,630 --> 00:54:26,400
ness monster

1458
00:54:30,549 --> 00:54:28,640
however contrary to popular belief

1459
00:54:33,109 --> 00:54:30,559
cryptids don't necessarily have to be

1460
00:54:34,230 --> 00:54:33,119
supernatural mythical or even all that

1461
00:54:36,630 --> 00:54:34,240
strange

1462
00:54:39,030 --> 00:54:36,640
just unproven and there are actually

1463
00:54:40,630 --> 00:54:39,040
several species that used to be cryptids

1464
00:54:41,510 --> 00:54:40,640
but were eventually discovered to be

1465
00:54:43,270 --> 00:54:41,520
real

1466
00:54:44,549 --> 00:54:43,280
and some of them are actually pretty

1467
00:54:46,630 --> 00:54:44,559
freaking weird

1468
00:54:48,390 --> 00:54:46,640
one classic example of a cryptid that

1469
00:54:49,430 --> 00:54:48,400
turned out to be real is the komodo

1470
00:54:51,430 --> 00:54:49,440
dragon

1471
00:54:53,109 --> 00:54:51,440
for centuries stories of enormous

1472
00:54:55,270 --> 00:54:53,119
lizards on the island of komodo in

1473
00:54:57,109 --> 00:54:55,280
indonesia were laughed at by any

1474
00:54:58,069 --> 00:54:57,119
respectable scientist in the western

1475
00:55:00,309 --> 00:54:58,079
world

1476
00:55:02,470 --> 00:55:00,319
that is until 1910 when the first

1477
00:55:03,510 --> 00:55:02,480
specimen was caught and killed shocking

1478
00:55:05,510 --> 00:55:03,520
the world

1479
00:55:08,870 --> 00:55:05,520
a pair of komodo dragons that was kept

1480
00:55:11,349 --> 00:55:08,880
at the bronx zoo even inspired marion c

1481
00:55:12,630 --> 00:55:11,359
cooper to write the 1933 classic king

1482
00:55:14,789 --> 00:55:12,640
kong

1483
00:55:17,910 --> 00:55:14,799
not quite as terrifying but in many ways

1484
00:55:19,990 --> 00:55:17,920
just as unlikely is the platypus

1485
00:55:22,309 --> 00:55:20,000
looking like a bad photoshop of a duck

1486
00:55:23,670 --> 00:55:22,319
otter and a beaver all mixed together

1487
00:55:25,910 --> 00:55:23,680
most people didn't believe that the

1488
00:55:27,829 --> 00:55:25,920
platypus could actually exist and it

1489
00:55:30,549 --> 00:55:27,839
wasn't until the 19th century that it

1490
00:55:32,230 --> 00:55:30,559
was definitively proven to be real

1491
00:55:34,710 --> 00:55:32,240
scientists were so convinced that this

1492
00:55:36,789 --> 00:55:34,720
absurd creature couldn't exist that the

1493
00:55:39,109 --> 00:55:36,799
first few pelts that were produced were

1494
00:55:41,510 --> 00:55:39,119
widely regarded to be hoaxes

1495
00:55:44,069 --> 00:55:41,520
and starting in the 5th century a.d

1496
00:55:46,390 --> 00:55:44,079
european explorers reported seeing hairy

1497
00:55:49,750 --> 00:55:46,400
human-like monsters in africa

1498
00:55:52,309 --> 00:55:49,760
however it wasn't until 1847 when thomas

1499
00:55:54,230 --> 00:55:52,319
savage found gorilla bones in liberia

1500
00:55:55,589 --> 00:55:54,240
the gorillas were first recognized as a

1501
00:55:57,270 --> 00:55:55,599
real species

1502
00:55:59,349 --> 00:55:57,280
and even then it took another decade for

1503
00:56:01,670 --> 00:55:59,359
one to be captured and analyzed

1504
00:56:03,910 --> 00:56:01,680
famously private one remote species of

1505
00:56:05,829 --> 00:56:03,920
mountain gorillas wasn't even discovered

1506
00:56:07,190 --> 00:56:05,839
until 1902

1507
00:56:09,109 --> 00:56:07,200
and though they've been reported by

1508
00:56:10,789 --> 00:56:09,119
sailors for millennia

1509
00:56:11,589 --> 00:56:10,799
giant squids were considered to be a

1510
00:56:13,670 --> 00:56:11,599
myth

1511
00:56:16,150 --> 00:56:13,680
however that changed when scientists

1512
00:56:19,190 --> 00:56:16,160
first took images of a giant squid in

1513
00:56:22,870 --> 00:56:19,200
2004 and then it was finally put to rest

1514
00:56:24,870 --> 00:56:22,880
in 2006 when a 24 foot long female was

1515
00:56:27,430 --> 00:56:24,880
caught alive by japan's national science

1516
00:56:28,950 --> 00:56:27,440
museum these are just a few examples of

1517
00:56:31,349 --> 00:56:28,960
cryptids that turned out to not be

1518
00:56:32,630 --> 00:56:31,359
cryptids and before we move on i

1519
00:56:35,109 --> 00:56:32,640
actually think it's really important to

1520
00:56:36,789 --> 00:56:35,119
point out that in most of these cases

1521
00:56:38,950 --> 00:56:36,799
cryptids probably weren't cryptid so the

1522
00:56:40,710 --> 00:56:38,960
people who actually lived there

1523
00:56:42,710 --> 00:56:40,720
for example the people of liberia

1524
00:56:44,230 --> 00:56:42,720
undoubtedly knew about guerrillas before

1525
00:56:46,710 --> 00:56:44,240
european scientists came in and

1526
00:56:49,030 --> 00:56:46,720
confirmed their existence for themselves

1527
00:56:50,710 --> 00:56:49,040
there is a tendency especially for those

1528
00:56:53,109 --> 00:56:50,720
of us who grew up with a eurocentric

1529
00:56:55,270 --> 00:56:53,119
worldview to apply the blueprint of what

1530
00:56:57,349 --> 00:56:55,280
is familiar to us to everything which

1531
00:56:58,950 --> 00:56:57,359
causes these kinds of errors

1532
00:57:01,430 --> 00:56:58,960
and it's a good reminder that it's

1533
00:57:03,750 --> 00:57:01,440
impossible to make a genuine scientific

1534
00:57:05,990 --> 00:57:03,760
inquiry into anything if you've already

1535
00:57:07,750 --> 00:57:06,000
decided ahead of time what is possible

1536
00:57:09,670 --> 00:57:07,760
and what is not possible

1537
00:57:11,430 --> 00:57:09,680
so we know that some animals that we

1538
00:57:12,710 --> 00:57:11,440
once considered to be cryptids turned

1539
00:57:14,630 --> 00:57:12,720
out to be real

1540
00:57:16,630 --> 00:57:14,640
so it stands to reason that it's at

1541
00:57:19,190 --> 00:57:16,640
least possible that there could be a

1542
00:57:20,710 --> 00:57:19,200
non-human intelligent species somewhere

1543
00:57:22,870 --> 00:57:20,720
on the planet that we haven't

1544
00:57:25,109 --> 00:57:22,880
encountered yet and if they are as

1545
00:57:27,349 --> 00:57:25,119
technologically advanced as the ufo

1546
00:57:29,670 --> 00:57:27,359
phenomenon would suggest they'd

1547
00:57:31,670 --> 00:57:29,680
theoretically have a much easier time

1548
00:57:34,870 --> 00:57:31,680
hiding from humans than gorillas or even

1549
00:57:37,030 --> 00:57:34,880
giant squid but that begs the question

1550
00:57:39,030 --> 00:57:37,040
where could they be hiding one of the

1551
00:57:41,190 --> 00:57:39,040
most obvious places is somewhere we've

1552
00:57:43,270 --> 00:57:41,200
already talked about which is in other

1553
00:57:44,630 --> 00:57:43,280
universes or dimensions

1554
00:57:46,390 --> 00:57:44,640
this is where the interdimensional

1555
00:57:48,789 --> 00:57:46,400
hypothesis and the ultra-terrestrial

1556
00:57:51,030 --> 00:57:48,799
hypothesis start to blend together

1557
00:57:52,710 --> 00:57:51,040
basically it could be that we occupy

1558
00:57:54,549 --> 00:57:52,720
more or less the same place in time and

1559
00:57:56,390 --> 00:57:54,559
space as other beings but that we

1560
00:57:58,950 --> 00:57:56,400
usually can't see or interact with them

1561
00:58:00,789 --> 00:57:58,960
except for under special circumstances

1562
00:58:02,950 --> 00:58:00,799
in terms of how that would work

1563
00:58:05,589 --> 00:58:02,960
we have no idea but as we've already

1564
00:58:07,510 --> 00:58:05,599
explored the potential here is literally

1565
00:58:09,510 --> 00:58:07,520
infinite however

1566
00:58:11,270 --> 00:58:09,520
these beings wouldn't necessarily have

1567
00:58:13,270 --> 00:58:11,280
to hide out in another dimension in

1568
00:58:15,030 --> 00:58:13,280
order to avoid our detection

1569
00:58:17,109 --> 00:58:15,040
there are still plenty of places on

1570
00:58:20,470 --> 00:58:17,119
earth that we can't access and about

1571
00:58:23,430 --> 00:58:20,480
which we have virtually no information

1572
00:58:26,309 --> 00:58:23,440
and almost all of them are underwater

1573
00:58:28,950 --> 00:58:26,319
our oceans account for 70 of the surface

1574
00:58:32,230 --> 00:58:28,960
of the earth and yet we've only explored

1575
00:58:33,910 --> 00:58:32,240
about 5 of them and almost all of that

1576
00:58:36,549 --> 00:58:33,920
is near the surface

1577
00:58:38,390 --> 00:58:36,559
ironically we know more about saturn

1578
00:58:40,950 --> 00:58:38,400
than we do about the deep oceans of our

1579
00:58:42,549 --> 00:58:40,960
own planet it's the very vastness of the

1580
00:58:43,910 --> 00:58:42,559
oceans that creates a challenge in

1581
00:58:46,950 --> 00:58:43,920
exploring them

1582
00:58:49,109 --> 00:58:46,960
saturn is literally a billion miles away

1583
00:58:51,349 --> 00:58:49,119
from the earth but you can see it in the

1584
00:58:53,270 --> 00:58:51,359
sky with your naked eye and its rings

1585
00:58:55,430 --> 00:58:53,280
can be detected with even the smallest

1586
00:58:57,829 --> 00:58:55,440
telescope however

1587
00:59:00,390 --> 00:58:57,839
once you go deeper than 200 meters or

1588
00:59:02,630 --> 00:59:00,400
about 650 feet in the ocean

1589
00:59:05,670 --> 00:59:02,640
the sunlight can no longer penetrate and

1590
00:59:07,270 --> 00:59:05,680
it gets very dark very fast

1591
00:59:10,230 --> 00:59:07,280
and when you consider that the oceans

1592
00:59:11,990 --> 00:59:10,240
can be up to seven miles deep it

1593
00:59:14,069 --> 00:59:12,000
immediately becomes clear that a

1594
00:59:16,150 --> 00:59:14,079
staggering proportion of what we would

1595
00:59:19,030 --> 00:59:16,160
consider to be the livable space on this

1596
00:59:20,470 --> 00:59:19,040
planet is completely uncharted and

1597
00:59:22,230 --> 00:59:20,480
unknown to us

1598
00:59:24,789 --> 00:59:22,240
it's hard not to consider what might be

1599
00:59:26,870 --> 00:59:24,799
hiding down there but at the very least

1600
00:59:29,109 --> 00:59:26,880
there are likely countless species and

1601
00:59:31,589 --> 00:59:29,119
ecosystems that exist on this planet of

1602
00:59:33,430 --> 00:59:31,599
which we have no awareness

1603
00:59:35,109 --> 00:59:33,440
this underwater possibility is

1604
00:59:36,950 --> 00:59:35,119
especially interesting to consider

1605
00:59:39,270 --> 00:59:36,960
because there is an undeniable

1606
00:59:40,470 --> 00:59:39,280
relationship between the ufo phenomenon

1607
00:59:42,630 --> 00:59:40,480
and water

1608
00:59:44,309 --> 00:59:42,640
lou elizondo himself has brought this up

1609
00:59:46,470 --> 00:59:44,319
in multiple interviews and on his

1610
00:59:48,789 --> 00:59:46,480
history channel show unidentified

1611
00:59:51,990 --> 00:59:48,799
that ufos show one other seeming

1612
00:59:53,670 --> 00:59:52,000
affinity besides nuclear facilities and

1613
00:59:54,630 --> 00:59:53,680
that is that they are often found around

1614
00:59:56,390 --> 00:59:54,640
water

1615
00:59:58,789 --> 00:59:56,400
not by coincidence all of the

1616
01:00:01,030 --> 00:59:58,799
declassified navy videos of ufos

1617
01:00:02,230 --> 01:00:01,040
happened over water and it's very

1618
01:00:04,230 --> 01:00:02,240
interesting to note that these

1619
01:00:06,710 --> 01:00:04,240
declassified videos and the ultimate

1620
01:00:09,190 --> 01:00:06,720
confirmation about the existence of uaps

1621
01:00:12,470 --> 01:00:09,200
has come from the navy while the air

1622
01:00:13,910 --> 01:00:12,480
force has remained conspicuously quiet

1623
01:00:15,990 --> 01:00:13,920
that's a conversation for another

1624
01:00:18,150 --> 01:00:16,000
episode but it further underlines the

1625
01:00:19,349 --> 01:00:18,160
connection between the ufo phenomenon

1626
01:00:21,190 --> 01:00:19,359
and water

1627
01:00:22,710 --> 01:00:21,200
and it's not just ufologists and

1628
01:00:24,789 --> 01:00:22,720
researchers here in the states that have

1629
01:00:27,750 --> 01:00:24,799
noticed the seeming affinity

1630
01:00:30,069 --> 01:00:27,760
in 2009 russia declassified a bunch of

1631
01:00:31,670 --> 01:00:30,079
its cold war era documents reporting the

1632
01:00:32,950 --> 01:00:31,680
ufo phenomenon

1633
01:00:35,750 --> 01:00:32,960
and they had reached the same

1634
01:00:38,390 --> 01:00:35,760
conclusions one document reads

1635
01:00:42,150 --> 01:00:38,400
50 of ufo encounters are connected with

1636
01:00:44,470 --> 01:00:42,160
oceans 15 percent more with lakes so

1637
01:00:46,390 --> 01:00:44,480
ufos tend to stick to the water

1638
01:00:48,630 --> 01:00:46,400
the documents also contain several

1639
01:00:52,470 --> 01:00:48,640
reports of underwater encounters with

1640
01:00:54,870 --> 01:00:52,480
usos or unidentified submersible objects

1641
01:00:57,270 --> 01:00:54,880
including objects and sometimes multiple

1642
01:00:59,430 --> 01:00:57,280
objects moving in formation recorded

1643
01:01:03,430 --> 01:00:59,440
moving under the water at speeds of up

1644
01:01:05,109 --> 01:01:03,440
to 230 knots or 400 kilometers per hour

1645
01:01:07,910 --> 01:01:05,119
something that should be physically

1646
01:01:09,670 --> 01:01:07,920
impossible given the water resistance

1647
01:01:11,349 --> 01:01:09,680
and it's not just in oceans where these

1648
01:01:13,349 --> 01:01:11,359
encounters are happening

1649
01:01:15,670 --> 01:01:13,359
large lakes have also been known to be

1650
01:01:18,710 --> 01:01:15,680
epicenters of ufo activity

1651
01:01:20,870 --> 01:01:18,720
one example is lake baikal in russia

1652
01:01:23,430 --> 01:01:20,880
lake baikal is the deepest lake in the

1653
01:01:25,750 --> 01:01:23,440
world and contains more than 20 percent

1654
01:01:27,430 --> 01:01:25,760
of the world's fresh water reaching a

1655
01:01:29,910 --> 01:01:27,440
mile deep in places and with

1656
01:01:32,309 --> 01:01:29,920
temperatures dipping down to a frigid

1657
01:01:33,670 --> 01:01:32,319
negative 19 degrees celsius or negative

1658
01:01:36,150 --> 01:01:33,680
2 fahrenheit

1659
01:01:37,190 --> 01:01:36,160
not much is known about baikal's icy

1660
01:01:39,190 --> 01:01:37,200
depths

1661
01:01:41,349 --> 01:01:39,200
russia's declassified document dump

1662
01:01:43,270 --> 01:01:41,359
included multiple reports of mysterious

1663
01:01:44,549 --> 01:01:43,280
lights and objects in the skies above

1664
01:01:46,710 --> 01:01:44,559
lake baikal

1665
01:01:49,030 --> 01:01:46,720
as well as reports of them coming in and

1666
01:01:50,950 --> 01:01:49,040
out of the water itself something that

1667
01:01:52,390 --> 01:01:50,960
locals and fishermen have been reporting

1668
01:01:53,910 --> 01:01:52,400
for years

1669
01:01:56,150 --> 01:01:53,920
but there's one account from these

1670
01:01:58,789 --> 01:01:56,160
documents that i find particularly

1671
01:02:00,630 --> 01:01:58,799
interesting and i call it out now simply

1672
01:02:02,870 --> 01:02:00,640
because it's one of my favorites and

1673
01:02:04,789 --> 01:02:02,880
this is my podcast and i want to

1674
01:02:07,510 --> 01:02:04,799
not because i assign it any special

1675
01:02:08,870 --> 01:02:07,520
level of credibility it's just fun

1676
01:02:12,470 --> 01:02:08,880
so according to one of these

1677
01:02:14,470 --> 01:02:12,480
declassified documents in 1982 seven

1678
01:02:16,870 --> 01:02:14,480
russian navy divers were conducting a

1679
01:02:19,349 --> 01:02:16,880
research mission in lake baikal

1680
01:02:21,589 --> 01:02:19,359
the russian divers were at a depth of 50

1681
01:02:23,430 --> 01:02:21,599
meters when suddenly they realized that

1682
01:02:25,270 --> 01:02:23,440
they were being watched by unknown

1683
01:02:26,950 --> 01:02:25,280
beings under the water

1684
01:02:29,670 --> 01:02:26,960
these beings were reportedly

1685
01:02:31,910 --> 01:02:29,680
anthropomorphic but much larger than

1686
01:02:33,750 --> 01:02:31,920
humans at nine feet tall

1687
01:02:36,390 --> 01:02:33,760
they were reportedly wearing some sort

1688
01:02:38,069 --> 01:02:36,400
of super thin silvery suit and while

1689
01:02:40,069 --> 01:02:38,079
they appeared to have some sort of a

1690
01:02:41,990 --> 01:02:40,079
helmet over their heads there was no

1691
01:02:43,670 --> 01:02:42,000
evidence of scuba gear or any similar

1692
01:02:45,910 --> 01:02:43,680
breathing apparatus

1693
01:02:47,829 --> 01:02:45,920
the russian divers then allegedly tried

1694
01:02:49,990 --> 01:02:47,839
to capture one of these beings who

1695
01:02:52,710 --> 01:02:50,000
reportedly responded with some sort of a

1696
01:02:55,430 --> 01:02:52,720
powerful unseen force that propelled all

1697
01:02:57,750 --> 01:02:55,440
of the divers rapidly to the surface

1698
01:02:59,910 --> 01:02:57,760
three divers died from the bends as a

1699
01:03:02,549 --> 01:02:59,920
result of this rapid ascent and the

1700
01:03:05,190 --> 01:03:02,559
other four were severely injured wild

1701
01:03:06,950 --> 01:03:05,200
right now granted i have no idea what to

1702
01:03:08,950 --> 01:03:06,960
make of this account and there's no real

1703
01:03:11,910 --> 01:03:08,960
way to verify any of it

1704
01:03:14,230 --> 01:03:11,920
but still the fact that this report was

1705
01:03:16,630 --> 01:03:14,240
apparently made and documented by the

1706
01:03:18,470 --> 01:03:16,640
russian navy at a time when the stigma

1707
01:03:20,950 --> 01:03:18,480
around the ufo phenomenon was at its

1708
01:03:22,309 --> 01:03:20,960
highest is more than a little bit

1709
01:03:24,230 --> 01:03:22,319
interesting

1710
01:03:26,870 --> 01:03:24,240
another possible hiding place for a

1711
01:03:28,069 --> 01:03:26,880
non-human intelligence species would be

1712
01:03:30,950 --> 01:03:28,079
underground

1713
01:03:32,950 --> 01:03:30,960
the reality is that in many ways we know

1714
01:03:35,829 --> 01:03:32,960
even less about what lies beneath our

1715
01:03:38,549 --> 01:03:35,839
feet than we do about our deepest oceans

1716
01:03:40,789 --> 01:03:38,559
so how far underground would it even be

1717
01:03:43,309 --> 01:03:40,799
possible for life to exist

1718
01:03:45,430 --> 01:03:43,319
that's not an easy question to answer

1719
01:03:47,510 --> 01:03:45,440
geomicrobiologists have found bacteria

1720
01:03:48,710 --> 01:03:47,520
living in rock two miles beneath the

1721
01:03:50,710 --> 01:03:48,720
earth's surface

1722
01:03:52,230 --> 01:03:50,720
so there is evidence that subterranean

1723
01:03:54,950 --> 01:03:52,240
life is possible

1724
01:03:57,829 --> 01:03:54,960
however the organisms we find at that

1725
01:03:59,510 --> 01:03:57,839
depth are extremophiles and conditions

1726
01:04:00,950 --> 01:03:59,520
that most living organisms couldn't

1727
01:04:02,870 --> 01:04:00,960
withstand

1728
01:04:05,589 --> 01:04:02,880
and it's not bacteria that's creating

1729
01:04:06,789 --> 01:04:05,599
and piloting ufos so that's not super

1730
01:04:08,309 --> 01:04:06,799
helpful

1731
01:04:10,789 --> 01:04:08,319
caves would be a better candidate for

1732
01:04:12,789 --> 01:04:10,799
concealing complex life forms but our

1733
01:04:14,230 --> 01:04:12,799
information about caves is somewhat

1734
01:04:16,950 --> 01:04:14,240
limited as well

1735
01:04:19,670 --> 01:04:16,960
we do know that there are a lot of them

1736
01:04:22,150 --> 01:04:19,680
in the united states alone there are 17

1737
01:04:23,829 --> 01:04:22,160
000 caves with likely thousands more

1738
01:04:25,829 --> 01:04:23,839
still undiscovered

1739
01:04:27,109 --> 01:04:25,839
and some of these caves go deep

1740
01:04:29,950 --> 01:04:27,119
underground

1741
01:04:33,069 --> 01:04:29,960
the deepest cave that we know of is

1742
01:04:36,870 --> 01:04:33,079
2212 meters or

1743
01:04:38,390 --> 01:04:36,880
7257 feet deep underground

1744
01:04:40,710 --> 01:04:38,400
an advanced civilization could

1745
01:04:43,029 --> 01:04:40,720
conceivably even expand upon existing

1746
01:04:44,789 --> 01:04:43,039
caves creating deep caverns and even

1747
01:04:47,270 --> 01:04:44,799
cities under the earth

1748
01:04:48,870 --> 01:04:47,280
this might seem far-fetched but building

1749
01:04:50,470 --> 01:04:48,880
and living in cities underground is

1750
01:04:52,150 --> 01:04:50,480
something that humans have done at times

1751
01:04:54,069 --> 01:04:52,160
in our history as well

1752
01:04:55,270 --> 01:04:54,079
and while underground life might sound

1753
01:04:56,630 --> 01:04:55,280
dreary

1754
01:04:58,630 --> 01:04:56,640
if you're looking for protection from

1755
01:04:59,829 --> 01:04:58,640
the elements or your enemies it's very

1756
01:05:02,630 --> 01:04:59,839
effective

1757
01:05:04,309 --> 01:05:02,640
one famous example is darren cuyu a

1758
01:05:06,390 --> 01:05:04,319
massive underground city that is

1759
01:05:09,029 --> 01:05:06,400
actually one of a complex of underground

1760
01:05:11,190 --> 01:05:09,039
structures in cappadocia turkey

1761
01:05:13,589 --> 01:05:11,200
the city which is estimated to date back

1762
01:05:15,750 --> 01:05:13,599
to the 8th century a.d although there is

1763
01:05:18,470 --> 01:05:15,760
debate that it could be much older

1764
01:05:21,430 --> 01:05:18,480
spans more than 4 million square feet

1765
01:05:23,190 --> 01:05:21,440
and could house up to 20 000 people

1766
01:05:25,430 --> 01:05:23,200
even by today's standards it's an

1767
01:05:27,829 --> 01:05:25,440
architectural marvel

1768
01:05:30,549 --> 01:05:27,839
so while an underground civilization may

1769
01:05:32,150 --> 01:05:30,559
sound outlandish it's at least possible

1770
01:05:34,069 --> 01:05:32,160
in the technical sense

1771
01:05:36,789 --> 01:05:34,079
making this strange theory one that we

1772
01:05:38,390 --> 01:05:36,799
still can't rule out so

1773
01:05:40,870 --> 01:05:38,400
since we're here and we're talking about

1774
01:05:43,670 --> 01:05:40,880
ultra-terrestrials hiding underground

1775
01:05:45,510 --> 01:05:43,680
we absolutely have to discuss one of the

1776
01:05:47,670 --> 01:05:45,520
wildest theories out there

1777
01:05:49,349 --> 01:05:47,680
and a personal favorite of mine the

1778
01:05:51,510 --> 01:05:49,359
hollow earth theory

1779
01:05:53,589 --> 01:05:51,520
this is the idea that our planet and

1780
01:05:54,630 --> 01:05:53,599
some extend this idea to include all

1781
01:05:57,670 --> 01:05:54,640
planets

1782
01:05:59,270 --> 01:05:57,680
is in fact hollow and that it is teeming

1783
01:06:01,109 --> 01:05:59,280
with life and potentially hidden

1784
01:06:04,390 --> 01:06:01,119
civilizations

1785
01:06:06,630 --> 01:06:04,400
i love the hollow earth theory to be

1786
01:06:08,710 --> 01:06:06,640
clear i don't believe it's true the

1787
01:06:11,109 --> 01:06:08,720
physics of a hollow planet just simply

1788
01:06:13,109 --> 01:06:11,119
does not check out and the little hard

1789
01:06:15,029 --> 01:06:13,119
evidence that is offered up is highly

1790
01:06:17,349 --> 01:06:15,039
sus as the kids say

1791
01:06:18,710 --> 01:06:17,359
but come on this one is just fun if

1792
01:06:20,549 --> 01:06:18,720
you're unfamiliar with the idea of the

1793
01:06:23,029 --> 01:06:20,559
hollow earth there are many different

1794
01:06:25,430 --> 01:06:23,039
permutations of this story but the basic

1795
01:06:26,549 --> 01:06:25,440
idea is that you guessed it the earth is

1796
01:06:28,470 --> 01:06:26,559
hollow

1797
01:06:30,390 --> 01:06:28,480
many adherents believe that there are

1798
01:06:32,470 --> 01:06:30,400
giant openings to the interior of the

1799
01:06:34,630 --> 01:06:32,480
planet at the north and south poles and

1800
01:06:36,309 --> 01:06:34,640
that one or more highly advanced species

1801
01:06:37,510 --> 01:06:36,319
have made their homes and cities deep

1802
01:06:39,270 --> 01:06:37,520
underground

1803
01:06:41,190 --> 01:06:39,280
generally everything in the hollow earth

1804
01:06:43,589 --> 01:06:41,200
is like the surface of the planet but

1805
01:06:45,190 --> 01:06:43,599
better the civilizations found there are

1806
01:06:46,950 --> 01:06:45,200
peaceful and live in harmony with their

1807
01:06:48,950 --> 01:06:46,960
environment the environment is

1808
01:06:50,710 --> 01:06:48,960
unpolluted and better suited to life

1809
01:06:52,630 --> 01:06:50,720
allowing for the evolution of plants

1810
01:06:54,230 --> 01:06:52,640
animals and beings that are bigger and

1811
01:06:55,430 --> 01:06:54,240
far more exotic than what we find on the

1812
01:06:57,510 --> 01:06:55,440
surface

1813
01:06:58,870 --> 01:06:57,520
and as i mentioned the physics of it all

1814
01:07:00,870 --> 01:06:58,880
is baffling

1815
01:07:03,430 --> 01:07:00,880
how a hollow planet wouldn't collapse in

1816
01:07:05,430 --> 01:07:03,440
on itself is a real mystery and when you

1817
01:07:08,150 --> 01:07:05,440
add in the fact that most versions of

1818
01:07:10,549 --> 01:07:08,160
the hollow earth include an interior sun

1819
01:07:12,710 --> 01:07:10,559
suspended in the middle of the planet it

1820
01:07:14,549 --> 01:07:12,720
doesn't just push the lines of credulity

1821
01:07:16,950 --> 01:07:14,559
it shatters them

1822
01:07:19,349 --> 01:07:16,960
still this is an idea with surprising

1823
01:07:22,390 --> 01:07:19,359
staying power it was first introduced in

1824
01:07:24,470 --> 01:07:22,400
the 1700s by physicist edmund halley and

1825
01:07:26,390 --> 01:07:24,480
despite centuries of debunking it

1826
01:07:28,549 --> 01:07:26,400
continues to spring up anew with a few

1827
01:07:31,029 --> 01:07:28,559
details changed but with the same

1828
01:07:32,069 --> 01:07:31,039
fantastical belief still firmly at its

1829
01:07:33,990 --> 01:07:32,079
center

1830
01:07:36,470 --> 01:07:34,000
i think one of the reasons that i like

1831
01:07:39,270 --> 01:07:36,480
hollow earth so much is that it is

1832
01:07:41,029 --> 01:07:39,280
literally and figuratively the opposite

1833
01:07:42,950 --> 01:07:41,039
of the flat earth theory

1834
01:07:45,670 --> 01:07:42,960
literally they're opposites in the sense

1835
01:07:47,829 --> 01:07:45,680
that instead of a flat earth this model

1836
01:07:50,230 --> 01:07:47,839
turns the earth in on itself creating

1837
01:07:52,549 --> 01:07:50,240
another secret world inside

1838
01:07:54,069 --> 01:07:52,559
but also i find them to be spiritual

1839
01:07:56,069 --> 01:07:54,079
opposites as well

1840
01:07:57,990 --> 01:07:56,079
the flat earth is less than what we

1841
01:07:59,190 --> 01:07:58,000
thought it was and somehow far more

1842
01:08:01,190 --> 01:07:59,200
sinister

1843
01:08:02,710 --> 01:08:01,200
the hollow earth is more than what we

1844
01:08:05,109 --> 01:08:02,720
thought it was and it's full of

1845
01:08:07,349 --> 01:08:05,119
fantastical possibilities and the

1846
01:08:09,510 --> 01:08:07,359
promise of a better world

1847
01:08:11,109 --> 01:08:09,520
true or not i know which one i'd rather

1848
01:08:13,589 --> 01:08:11,119
spend my time on

1849
01:08:15,829 --> 01:08:13,599
and if i'm being honest that's where i

1850
01:08:18,070 --> 01:08:15,839
shake out on a lot of this stuff

1851
01:08:20,149 --> 01:08:18,080
it is inherently human to want to know

1852
01:08:22,470 --> 01:08:20,159
the unknowable to approach the

1853
01:08:24,149 --> 01:08:22,480
unapproachable but when we wander out

1854
01:08:27,749 --> 01:08:24,159
beyond the realms of current human

1855
01:08:29,749 --> 01:08:27,759
understanding we find ourselves unmoored

1856
01:08:32,550 --> 01:08:29,759
like ptolemy we have a model of the

1857
01:08:35,030 --> 01:08:32,560
universe that fits but doesn't quite fit

1858
01:08:37,430 --> 01:08:35,040
that looks true but that still hides

1859
01:08:39,510 --> 01:08:37,440
some deeper mystery awaiting the day

1860
01:08:41,829 --> 01:08:39,520
when our perspective swells to a size

1861
01:08:43,510 --> 01:08:41,839
that can contain it and we can finally

1862
01:08:45,349 --> 01:08:43,520
see it for what it is

1863
01:08:47,829 --> 01:08:45,359
and in this space of wonder and

1864
01:08:49,749 --> 01:08:47,839
imagination where we walk right up to

1865
01:08:52,390 --> 01:08:49,759
the veil without yet having the means to

1866
01:08:54,149 --> 01:08:52,400
move it aside and see what lies beyond

1867
01:08:57,430 --> 01:08:54,159
the ideas that we cultivate and

1868
01:08:59,269 --> 01:08:57,440
entertain are by their very nature more

1869
01:09:01,110 --> 01:08:59,279
reflection of who we are than of what

1870
01:09:02,470 --> 01:09:01,120
we're hoping to reveal about the nature

1871
01:09:05,030 --> 01:09:02,480
of reality

1872
01:09:06,870 --> 01:09:05,040
which is why right or wrong you'll

1873
01:09:08,630 --> 01:09:06,880
always find me on the side of the

1874
01:09:10,149 --> 01:09:08,640
dreamers and the aggressively

1875
01:09:11,590 --> 01:09:10,159
non-cynical

1876
01:09:12,390 --> 01:09:11,600
and that's where we'll pick this up next

1877
01:09:14,149 --> 01:09:12,400
week

1878
01:09:15,910 --> 01:09:14,159
with an introduction to the cast of

1879
01:09:17,430 --> 01:09:15,920
characters at the heart of the growing

1880
01:09:19,430 --> 01:09:17,440
disclosure movement

1881
01:09:22,070 --> 01:09:19,440
through the lens of what is perhaps the

1882
01:09:24,630 --> 01:09:22,080
most surprising and least cynical

1883
01:09:26,789 --> 01:09:24,640
stories ever told and one with the

1884
01:09:28,590 --> 01:09:26,799
unlikeliest of heroes

1885
01:09:34,349 --> 01:09:28,600
i'll see you then